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Yes and no. A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. My ROI has been > 20x. Learning a 3-5 yr curriculum on your own

Yes and no. A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. My ROI has been > 20x. Learning a 3-5 yr curriculum on your own is a surefire way to get you demotivated and/or depressed.

superbcarrot 6y ago
> A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. This has been the case in the recent past and is probably still true right now but the trend won't last forever.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  In the 1980s/90s, a medical degree was the “sure bet” way to a six-figure income. The result was a huge flood of doctors that were...not the best, and some fairly dodgy medical schools. Of course, this also ended up pushing malpractice insurance (and tuition) into six figures, so I guess we achieved balance. We’re starting to see some similar stuff, going on, now, in software development. There’s some...not the best, engineers, out there. I know that E&O insurance isn’t cheap, but it’s a tiny fraction of medical malpractice insurance. That may change, as Big Data, terrible security practices, and ML/AI are starting to make the old adage ”To err is human; but it takes a computer to really screw things up.” kick into overdrive.
  - nojito 6y ago
    This is just not true. Residency slots have not changed much if at all in decades due to the AMA. It wasn’t until the late 00s do we see any meaningful uptick in medical graduates.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
      OK. I will accept that. Any idea why so many doctors I know (American born and bred) had to attend offshore schools?
- tim333 6y ago
  Has there ever been a glut of unemployed Comp Sci./Eng grads? I think it's limited by the work being hard and perhaps a bit unglamorous.
  - superbcarrot 6y ago
    No there hasn't but historically there haven't been that many graduates to begin with. I'm trying to make the point that we're finally approaching a stage when the supply of graduates will be higher than the demand in the market. The growth in tech from the past 20 years won't last forever and the advice to just get a CS degree will be harmful in the near future. I don't have first-hand perspective on this but my impression is that this is already happening in India to some extent with so many young people getting engineering/CS degrees because they see them as a way out of poverty only to realize that the demand just isn't there.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      I just hope some of those engineers in India have a great idea and invent something that changes the world. There are a number of "robots" that don't exist that I'd love to have. Something to do laundry. (we already have washers and dryers, but folders are just getting started, and nothing to pick my dirty clothes off the floor and put clean back into my closet). Something to do dishes (again gathering them off the table to clean in the cupboards) There is also a lot of options in the medical field. Right now I know someone who was told that surgery is the normal path for his cancer, but because it is so close to a nerve they aren't willing to risk that - finding a better answer for his case is a combination of medical science and engineering. I know someone else who is going to die who if cancer was discovered sooner would have been treatable. I won't even mention the next pandemic. The above is but a short list of things that an engineer can work on. I look forward to seeing what the rest come up with.
- phildawes 6y ago
  You can make that argument about anything. How about betting on a timeframe?
- Nursie 6y ago
  We're already not the rare, coveted unicorns we once were - immigration rules in various countries were stacked in our favour a decade back. Now, much less so.
xxs 6y ago
>Learning a 3-5 yr curriculum You don't need that to find a decent job. Most developer/programmer jobs have very little to do with comp. sci (which is math) and a lot more with practical application of few select skills.
- ronyfadel 6y ago
  While you don't need it, it definitely helps you throughout your career. Not the degree per se (the piece of paper), but the breadth of what you learn. I find most people who have "really made it" without a degree to be exceptionally bright and wouldn't have needed the push/discipline of a college education anyways.
- snidane 6y ago
  You often need core computer science skills for the interviewing game.
  - xxs 6y ago
    If you mean datastructures and algorithms - I'd still not qualify them as 3-5y course.
claudiawerner 6y ago
>A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. What does this mean? "Decently" as in what? I left university last year with a master's in EE and I'm paid £26k/year before tax(!) to write C. Even for graduate jobs, that's not amazing.
- tomp 6y ago
  Go write C at a HFT hedge fund for 10x that salary.
- ronyfadel 6y ago
  "Decently paying job" as in higher than average wage (in the UK) at the least, and more often than not it's in top brackets. It doesn't mean that you can't get a bad deal, but that wouldn't be the norm. The average software engineer's salary [1] in the UK is much higher than the average electrical engineer's salary [2]. Since you're writing code anyways (within the realm of doing software engineering work), would it make sense to pivot over to a software engineering position? [1] https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-software-engineer-salary https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-software-en... [2] https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-electrical-engineer-salary https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-electrical-...
Xevi 6y ago
> Yes and no. A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. This is not true in a lot of countries according to my experience. I would not suggest this path for anyone that might start college in a couple of years. Unless you manage to get into a big company you'll probably find it easier to get a job and a good salary in many other sectors. I know pre-school teachers that had a 30% higher entry level salary than me, and they didn't even finish their education before getting jobs thrown their way. The supply of Comp Sci./Eng. people has increased A LOT. And there will be an explosion with all of the new graduates that have been told exactly what you're saying.
- ronyfadel 6y ago
  Which country has pre-school teachers making more than software engineers? (I'm curious!)
  - Xevi 6y ago
    In this case it was Sweden. Now, you could argue that the max salary for a developer is higher, but only if you get into a good company. Most devs get stuck at around $4k to $5.5k per month from what I know.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      Is that before of after taxes?
      - Xevi 6y ago
        Before taxes. Where I live I pay roughly 34% tax on my income.

superbcarrot 6y ago

> A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. This has been the case in the recent past and is probably still true right now but the trend won't last forever.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
In the 1980s/90s, a medical degree was the “sure bet” way to a six-figure income. The result was a huge flood of doctors that were...not the best, and some fairly dodgy medical schools. Of course, this also ended up pushing malpractice insurance (and tuition) into six figures, so I guess we achieved balance. We’re starting to see some similar stuff, going on, now, in software development. There’s some...not the best, engineers, out there. I know that E&O insurance isn’t cheap, but it’s a tiny fraction of medical malpractice insurance. That may change, as Big Data, terrible security practices, and ML/AI are starting to make the old adage ”To err is human; but it takes a computer to really screw things up.” kick into overdrive.
- nojito 6y ago
  This is just not true. Residency slots have not changed much if at all in decades due to the AMA. It wasn’t until the late 00s do we see any meaningful uptick in medical graduates.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    OK. I will accept that. Any idea why so many doctors I know (American born and bred) had to attend offshore schools?
tim333 6y ago
Has there ever been a glut of unemployed Comp Sci./Eng grads? I think it's limited by the work being hard and perhaps a bit unglamorous.
- superbcarrot 6y ago
  No there hasn't but historically there haven't been that many graduates to begin with. I'm trying to make the point that we're finally approaching a stage when the supply of graduates will be higher than the demand in the market. The growth in tech from the past 20 years won't last forever and the advice to just get a CS degree will be harmful in the near future. I don't have first-hand perspective on this but my impression is that this is already happening in India to some extent with so many young people getting engineering/CS degrees because they see them as a way out of poverty only to realize that the demand just isn't there.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I just hope some of those engineers in India have a great idea and invent something that changes the world. There are a number of "robots" that don't exist that I'd love to have. Something to do laundry. (we already have washers and dryers, but folders are just getting started, and nothing to pick my dirty clothes off the floor and put clean back into my closet). Something to do dishes (again gathering them off the table to clean in the cupboards) There is also a lot of options in the medical field. Right now I know someone who was told that surgery is the normal path for his cancer, but because it is so close to a nerve they aren't willing to risk that - finding a better answer for his case is a combination of medical science and engineering. I know someone else who is going to die who if cancer was discovered sooner would have been treatable. I won't even mention the next pandemic. The above is but a short list of things that an engineer can work on. I look forward to seeing what the rest come up with.
phildawes 6y ago
You can make that argument about anything. How about betting on a timeframe?
Nursie 6y ago
We're already not the rare, coveted unicorns we once were - immigration rules in various countries were stacked in our favour a decade back. Now, much less so.

xxs 6y ago

>Learning a 3-5 yr curriculum You don't need that to find a decent job. Most developer/programmer jobs have very little to do with comp. sci (which is math) and a lot more with practical application of few select skills.

ronyfadel 6y ago
While you don't need it, it definitely helps you throughout your career. Not the degree per se (the piece of paper), but the breadth of what you learn. I find most people who have "really made it" without a degree to be exceptionally bright and wouldn't have needed the push/discipline of a college education anyways.
snidane 6y ago
You often need core computer science skills for the interviewing game.
- xxs 6y ago
  If you mean datastructures and algorithms - I'd still not qualify them as 3-5y course.

claudiawerner 6y ago

>A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. What does this mean? "Decently" as in what? I left university last year with a master's in EE and I'm paid £26k/year before tax(!) to write C. Even for graduate jobs, that's not amazing.

tomp 6y ago
Go write C at a HFT hedge fund for 10x that salary.
ronyfadel 6y ago
"Decently paying job" as in higher than average wage (in the UK) at the least, and more often than not it's in top brackets. It doesn't mean that you can't get a bad deal, but that wouldn't be the norm. The average software engineer's salary [1] in the UK is much higher than the average electrical engineer's salary [2]. Since you're writing code anyways (within the realm of doing software engineering work), would it make sense to pivot over to a software engineering position? [1] https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-software-engineer-salary https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-software-en... [2] https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-electrical-engineer-salary https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-electrical-...

Xevi 6y ago

> Yes and no. A Comp Sci./Eng. degree is pretty much guaranteed to get you a decently paying job. This is not true in a lot of countries according to my experience. I would not suggest this path for anyone that might start college in a couple of years. Unless you manage to get into a big company you'll probably find it easier to get a job and a good salary in many other sectors. I know pre-school teachers that had a 30% higher entry level salary than me, and they didn't even finish their education before getting jobs thrown their way. The supply of Comp Sci./Eng. people has increased A LOT. And there will be an explosion with all of the new graduates that have been told exactly what you're saying.

ronyfadel 6y ago
Which country has pre-school teachers making more than software engineers? (I'm curious!)
- Xevi 6y ago
  In this case it was Sweden. Now, you could argue that the max salary for a developer is higher, but only if you get into a good company. Most devs get stuck at around $4k to $5.5k per month from what I know.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    Is that before of after taxes?
    - Xevi 6y ago
      Before taxes. Where I live I pay roughly 34% tax on my income.