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This is another reminder that we have some of the negative aspects of a cyberpunk future without the cool empowering hacking parts. I wonder about the sort of

by Bakary 6y ago

This is another reminder that we have some of the negative aspects of a cyberpunk future without the cool empowering hacking parts. I wonder about the sort of person who would design such a website. Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here.

sosodev 6y ago
A lot of people believe their corporations when they say "unions are bad for everybody"
julienreszka 6y ago
It's not difficult to find many regular people who hate unions vehemently. I would be angry too is someone spoke in my name without my consent.
- C19is20 6y ago
  You must be angry a lot - and often, too.
  - julienreszka 6y ago
    This isn't true. Why would you think so?
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      Probably they assume that you live somewhere where the government (or someone else) is regularly claiming to speak for you.
LMYahooTFY 6y ago
>I wonder about the sort of person who would design such a website. Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Though I disagree with Amazon's official arguments, I'm even more opposed to the notion that anyone who agrees with them is dead inside.
- Bakary 6y ago
  It's not about the actual fact of being against unions, but the website itself. A self-parody
decebalus1 6y ago
> I wonder about the sort of person who would design such a website. Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I suggest you hang around Blind for a bit and you'll realize that some of our techie colleagues hold some.. interesting opinions about labor or about how much to pay workers we now consider 'essential'
- pbourke 6y ago
  I would urge you not to join Blind if you consider yourself reasonably comfortable with your perception of your coworkers. It will change.
  - decebalus1 6y ago
    Blind is very toxic. It's one of apps I install rarely, only when needed (something is happening at work or to gauge offers) just for mental health reasons. It's unbelievable what people are comfortable sharing under anonymity. HOWEVER, it's one of the only places in tech where the koolaid is called out for what it is and nobody pretends to be happy. It's an island of sincerity.
- Bakary 6y ago
  I am not in the tech world, but reading through HN has been more than enough to understand exactly what you mean. Ultimately, people's opinions will change depending on what increases their material conditions at the expense of other groups, and I am no different in that regard.
chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Many of us don’t like unions. We consider them to be parasitic organizations that pervert the employer-employee-customer relationship without adding value. In fact, by twisting a business so that it is run for the benefit of the employees instead of for the mutual benefit of employees, employer, and customers, they destroy value. What is worse, unions have a nasty habit of convincing the government to make laws that effectively give the union a monopoly on certain kinds of tasks, preventing other workers from competing. Now you may not agree with this perspective and its certainly something that people should discuss rather than accept uncritically. But have you considered that you’re so unfamiliar with the actual case against unions that you have trouble imagining how someone could make a website opposing them without being dead inside because you’ve only been exposed to pro-union arguments?
- heterodoxxed 6y ago
  > you’re so unfamiliar with the actual case against unions How can the average American worker be so unfamiliar with the case against unions? We are inundated with anti-union propaganda practically from birth. Barely any of us are unionized, corporations have gone to the ends of the earth to disempower or dismantle unions for the past 40-50 years, and you hardly ever hear any pro-union narrative outside of union organizers and the left. I have heard the arguments against unions so many times I can recite them by heart. I've had posters up in my workplace, I've had to watch anti-union videos before even applying for jobs and I've had comments like yours pushed all over anything that even mentions unions. The idea that someone is pro-union because they've never heard the arguments against unions beggars belief.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    > How can the average American worker be so unfamiliar with the case against unions? We are inundated with anti-union propaganda practically from birth. I disagree on the pervasiveness of anti-union propaganda. Perhaps this is your experience, it has not been mine. > Barely any of us are unionized, corporations have gone to the ends of the earth to disempower or dismantle unions for the past 40-50 years, and you hardly ever hear any pro-union narrative outside of union organizers and the left. Barely any of us are amateur radio operators and you never hear about amateur radio from anyone except preppers and geeks, but it isn’t because of inundation of anti-ham-radio propaganda from birth, merely that most people aren’t aware that ham radio could fulfill any of their needs. > I have heard the arguments against unions so many times I can recite them by heart. I've had posters up in my workplace, I've had to watch anti-union videos before even applying for jobs and I've had comments like yours pushed all over anything that even mentions unions. Thats your experience. But I bet you didn’t wonder that each and every person who propagandized you were dead inside. Rather you eventually became aware that some of them had their own beliefs based on their own perspectives that led them to their anti-union work. > The idea that someone is pro-union because they've never heard the arguments against unions beggars belief. As does the idea that someone could only make anti-union website if they were dead inside, but we like to assume good faith when people make statements and keep our cynicism to ourselves when possible.
ineedasername 6y ago
without the cool empowering hacking parts You say that now, but what about when Amazon starts encouraging employees to replace their arms with pneumatic forklift tines?

by Bakary 6y ago

sosodev 6y ago

A lot of people believe their corporations when they say "unions are bad for everybody"

julienreszka 6y ago

It's not difficult to find many regular people who hate unions vehemently. I would be angry too is someone spoke in my name without my consent.

C19is20 6y ago
You must be angry a lot - and often, too.
- julienreszka 6y ago
  This isn't true. Why would you think so?
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    Probably they assume that you live somewhere where the government (or someone else) is regularly claiming to speak for you.

LMYahooTFY 6y ago

>I wonder about the sort of person who would design such a website. Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Though I disagree with Amazon's official arguments, I'm even more opposed to the notion that anyone who agrees with them is dead inside.

Bakary 6y ago
It's not about the actual fact of being against unions, but the website itself. A self-parody

decebalus1 6y ago

> I wonder about the sort of person who would design such a website. Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I suggest you hang around Blind for a bit and you'll realize that some of our techie colleagues hold some.. interesting opinions about labor or about how much to pay workers we now consider 'essential'

pbourke 6y ago
I would urge you not to join Blind if you consider yourself reasonably comfortable with your perception of your coworkers. It will change.
- decebalus1 6y ago
  Blind is very toxic. It's one of apps I install rarely, only when needed (something is happening at work or to gauge offers) just for mental health reasons. It's unbelievable what people are comfortable sharing under anonymity. HOWEVER, it's one of the only places in tech where the koolaid is called out for what it is and nobody pretends to be happy. It's an island of sincerity.
Bakary 6y ago
I am not in the tech world, but reading through HN has been more than enough to understand exactly what you mean. Ultimately, people's opinions will change depending on what increases their material conditions at the expense of other groups, and I am no different in that regard.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago

> Surely you'd have to be dead inside to create such an abomination, even if it's just a job? I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Many of us don’t like unions. We consider them to be parasitic organizations that pervert the employer-employee-customer relationship without adding value. In fact, by twisting a business so that it is run for the benefit of the employees instead of for the mutual benefit of employees, employer, and customers, they destroy value. What is worse, unions have a nasty habit of convincing the government to make laws that effectively give the union a monopoly on certain kinds of tasks, preventing other workers from competing. Now you may not agree with this perspective and its certainly something that people should discuss rather than accept uncritically. But have you considered that you’re so unfamiliar with the actual case against unions that you have trouble imagining how someone could make a website opposing them without being dead inside because you’ve only been exposed to pro-union arguments?

heterodoxxed 6y ago
> you’re so unfamiliar with the actual case against unions How can the average American worker be so unfamiliar with the case against unions? We are inundated with anti-union propaganda practically from birth. Barely any of us are unionized, corporations have gone to the ends of the earth to disempower or dismantle unions for the past 40-50 years, and you hardly ever hear any pro-union narrative outside of union organizers and the left. I have heard the arguments against unions so many times I can recite them by heart. I've had posters up in my workplace, I've had to watch anti-union videos before even applying for jobs and I've had comments like yours pushed all over anything that even mentions unions. The idea that someone is pro-union because they've never heard the arguments against unions beggars belief.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > How can the average American worker be so unfamiliar with the case against unions? We are inundated with anti-union propaganda practically from birth. I disagree on the pervasiveness of anti-union propaganda. Perhaps this is your experience, it has not been mine. > Barely any of us are unionized, corporations have gone to the ends of the earth to disempower or dismantle unions for the past 40-50 years, and you hardly ever hear any pro-union narrative outside of union organizers and the left. Barely any of us are amateur radio operators and you never hear about amateur radio from anyone except preppers and geeks, but it isn’t because of inundation of anti-ham-radio propaganda from birth, merely that most people aren’t aware that ham radio could fulfill any of their needs. > I have heard the arguments against unions so many times I can recite them by heart. I've had posters up in my workplace, I've had to watch anti-union videos before even applying for jobs and I've had comments like yours pushed all over anything that even mentions unions. Thats your experience. But I bet you didn’t wonder that each and every person who propagandized you were dead inside. Rather you eventually became aware that some of them had their own beliefs based on their own perspectives that led them to their anti-union work. > The idea that someone is pro-union because they've never heard the arguments against unions beggars belief. As does the idea that someone could only make anti-union website if they were dead inside, but we like to assume good faith when people make statements and keep our cynicism to ourselves when possible.

ineedasername 6y ago

without the cool empowering hacking parts You say that now, but what about when Amazon starts encouraging employees to replace their arms with pneumatic forklift tines?