3 ms·

I haven't seen a single case study that conclusively demonstrates that fomite transmission occurs at all. There have been a few cases from New Zealand that hav

I haven't seen a single case study that conclusively demonstrates that fomite transmission occurs at all. There have been a few cases from New Zealand that have been attributed to fomites, but then when you go look at it, it's "they were infected by touching the same elevator button." It's certainly curious that fomite transmission happens in a very small enclosed space with relatively little air circulation. What I've never seen is a case such as "they were infected by picking up a package dropped off outside their door", or "they were infected by using the same playground equipment a few minutes later." All of the cases have some element of people sharing the same air.

joshspankit 6y ago
By your logic it sounds like it would be basically impossible to convince someone of fomite transmission.
- cameldrv 6y ago
  I provided two specific examples, where if we had a case study like that, I would be convinced. What I want to see is two people handling the same object but not breathing the same air. Could be a delivered package, a delivered food container, or any object brought from an index case to an infected person by a third uninfected person. This is precisely what people were worried about with everyone washing their groceries back in March/April, and I don't believe there is a single case that's been shown to have resulted from something like this.
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    I did not mean to say that you didn't provide examples, and I'm certainly not arguing for/against fomite transmission (way above my pay grade) but the question is where do you draw the line? > What I've never seen is a case such as "they were infected by picking up a package dropped off outside their door", or "they were infected by using the same playground equipment a few minutes later." All of the cases have some element of people sharing the same air. By the logic of "Yes, they say it's from the button, but it's logical to assume that it was actually the air", if there was a report of exactly one of the scenarios you described, would you say "Ok, it's definitely fomites", or would you automatically start thinking "They say they picked up the package after it was dropped off, but did they open the door just as the delivery person left and it was actually transmission by breathing the same air?"
    - cameldrv 6y ago
      If there was a single report of exactly one of the scenarios I described, I would have more doubt about fomites not being an issue. Ideally there would be more than a single documented transmission event. If fomites were a thing, you should see contact tracing coming up with things like "the delivery driver dropped off 30 packages and 6 people got sick" or "the chef at a takeout restaurant packed up 30 orders and 5 people got sick." I've never seen anything like this though. At this point, a year and 100 million cases in, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

joshspankit 6y ago

By your logic it sounds like it would be basically impossible to convince someone of fomite transmission.

cameldrv 6y ago
I provided two specific examples, where if we had a case study like that, I would be convinced. What I want to see is two people handling the same object but not breathing the same air. Could be a delivered package, a delivered food container, or any object brought from an index case to an infected person by a third uninfected person. This is precisely what people were worried about with everyone washing their groceries back in March/April, and I don't believe there is a single case that's been shown to have resulted from something like this.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  I did not mean to say that you didn't provide examples, and I'm certainly not arguing for/against fomite transmission (way above my pay grade) but the question is where do you draw the line? > What I've never seen is a case such as "they were infected by picking up a package dropped off outside their door", or "they were infected by using the same playground equipment a few minutes later." All of the cases have some element of people sharing the same air. By the logic of "Yes, they say it's from the button, but it's logical to assume that it was actually the air", if there was a report of exactly one of the scenarios you described, would you say "Ok, it's definitely fomites", or would you automatically start thinking "They say they picked up the package after it was dropped off, but did they open the door just as the delivery person left and it was actually transmission by breathing the same air?"
  - cameldrv 6y ago
    If there was a single report of exactly one of the scenarios I described, I would have more doubt about fomites not being an issue. Ideally there would be more than a single documented transmission event. If fomites were a thing, you should see contact tracing coming up with things like "the delivery driver dropped off 30 packages and 6 people got sick" or "the chef at a takeout restaurant packed up 30 orders and 5 people got sick." I've never seen anything like this though. At this point, a year and 100 million cases in, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.