12 ms·

Bluetooth Trackball Mark II

409 points by mbreese 6y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
That’s really well-done. Kudos! I was never a fan of trackballs (except for a couple of video games that gave me bruised palms), but this would be fun. But we’d have to see how it works out, over time. I have an old “gyro mouse,”[0] in my “junk drawer.” It was something I could never really get to like, even though it is cool. [0] https://www.gyration.com/ https://www.gyration.com/
isoprophlex 6y ago
Whoa! What a great idea, makes total sense once you see it. Maybe there's a possibility to build squeeze-to-click? Finger squeeze for click, press down with your palm for right click?
- ptman 6y ago
  Why would you need more than one mouse button? /s
- andai 6y ago
  And fondle gently for middle click.
  - isoprophlex 6y ago
    Apple iBalls, with contextual rubbing!
Tepix 6y ago
Super cool. Could it use a 3d compass to determine the "forward" direction?
- roland35 6y ago
  You can see your local magnetic field using NOAA's handy online tool: https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?useFullSite=true#igrfwmm https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?u... I didn't realize this earlier but my local magnetic field is actually mostly vertical! North: 19,625.7 nT West: -2,932.5 nT Vertical: 48,731.3 nT
- jfedor2 6y ago
  It does use a 3D compass (magnetometer), but it still needs to be told which direction is "up" as that depends on your orientation with regard to the screen.
gedy 6y ago
That's really brilliant, I'm a big trackball fan since the 90s.
- nerdwaller 6y ago
  This project and concept is really awesome. However for me - I’ve never found one that has everything I want, and I haven’t taken the time to try to make it yet. However I really want the Logitech marble mouse with a scroll wheel. If I could have that combination I’d be pretty elated.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    There's a Kensington trackball where you spin a ring for scrollwheel: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81T0oXLJoBL._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81T0oXLJoBL...
    - comboy 6y ago
      Kensington expert mouse has that. I use it, it's the best I found but its still far from great. The way the ring spins feels as you were moving plastic over plastic without any bearings - which is actually what's happening. Btw I think your picture is a Slimblade model in which you have to rotate the ball. Logitech Ergo MX is fine, it's built much better but Kensigton design is superior. It's not possible to be that accurate with a thumb and you also move slower because of a smaller ball. With KEM you can be fast and accurate. And scroll design is great, just badly implemented.
      - Uberphallus 6y ago
        Exactly, Expert Mouse = ring, Slimblade = the ball itself. In Slimblade you can scroll from your neutral hand position, that's what sells it to me. I've owned a Slimblade for 10 years, have tried all sorts of trackballs, and I can't imagine anything better for daily use. I got the KEM for work, but requiring hand adjustment to scroll feels like a definite step back, so I sent it back and ordered a second Slimblade instead.
Pxtl 6y ago
An I the only one seeing nothing for "here it is in action"?
- ORioN63 6y ago
  Same. Here it is (fetched from source): https://www.youtube.com/embed/QbE3H4vglHw https://www.youtube.com/embed/QbE3H4vglHw
- jfedor2 6y ago
  Ahh, it was broken on mobile. Should be working now.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jrmg 6y ago
This is awesome! You should collaborate with this guy on Reddit who made a trackball sanding rig: https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/ko2vvs/i_didnt_want_to_buy_huge_polisher_or_special_ball/ https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/ko2vvs/i_d... https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/kptk0h/version_2_of_trackball_sandingpolishing_machine/ https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/kptk0h/ver... https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/l0g8ml/finally_my_ball_sander_polisher_has_been/ https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/l0g8ml/fin... for his custom trackballs: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/knkcnx/55mm_3d_printed_trackball_using_qmk_and_pmw_3360/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/knkcnx...
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  > I can only imagine your google searches during the gestation period of this project I just finally branched out from software into hobby hardware and I'm eating up these tinkerer subreddits alive. Thanks for a new one. I impulse-bought an Arduino Uno (well, the much cheaper Elegoo Uno) starter kit and e-ink display and have been working on my own personal-needs Kindle replacement. Wish I did this as a kid or in uni. Oh well, never too late. Having lots of fun. The only regret is encumbering my minimalist nomad lifestyle with a multimeter, soldering iron kit, and more when my life had, just a month ago, fit into two duffel bags! A 3D printer is off the table at the moment.
  - mbreese 6y ago
    Have you checked out this project [1]? I found this one yesterday too. It’s a project working on an ebook built from various microcontrollers. [1] https://github.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book https://github.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book
  - mjlee 6y ago
    You can get USB multimeters and oscilloscopes and the TS 80 soldering iron is nice and compact. Also - consider local maker/hackerspaces if they're available (and, well, probably in a few months time in any event).
  - 6y ago
blackrock 6y ago
I wish laptops had a trackball or scroll wheel instead. I've always disliked the trackpad. And to do any serious work, I have to pull out a regular mouse.
jackyinger 6y ago
This is really cool. It could easily be taken to the next level of miniaturization by building a custom PCB to integrate all of the components. I bet a 1.5” diameter would be achievable! Edit: Simple PCB fabric services are very cheap these days.
slezyr 6y ago
This might be used as a replacement for a SpaceMouse[1] and control Blender3D as in this video[2]. 1: https://3dconnexion.com/ua/product/spacemouse-wireless/ https://3dconnexion.com/ua/product/spacemouse-wireless/ 2: https://youtu.be/wGx4T8OH10Y?t=44 https://youtu.be/wGx4T8OH10Y?t=44
- ipsum2 6y ago
  SpaceMouse has a Z-axis (lifting the knob up), which is really useful to zoom in and out of a 3d model. That can't be captured with just IMUs.
  - bondarchuk 6y ago
    What if you count rotation around the vertical axis? I have a kensington trackball where that is how you scroll.
    - codetrotter 6y ago
      Then you can no longer rotate, unless you make it rotate when you push some additional button. The 3DConnexion devices have 6 degrees of freedom without pushing any additional buttons. That being said I have a SpaceNavigator and I don’t use it, it’s just sitting in a drawer and I use my regular mouse and keyboard even in Blender.
- bambax 6y ago
  Makes me wonder if it would make sense to have rotary encoders for precision work -- something that would work like in an Etch A Sketch. The pointer could be positionned with great accuracy and wouldn't move by accident. It may not be too hard to make a prototype with an Arduino. Or maybe somebody already tried it?
sparrish 6y ago
Built by a man who obviously doesn't own a dog. "Anybody seen my mouse that looks like a ball?"
- m463 6y ago
  I imagine a man in a tug of war with his dog and behind him all the windows keep getting dragged off the screen.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    In my experience my cat would therefore see this as an opportunity to steal my chair so the animals win regardless
    - bluGill 6y ago
      My cat would be batting the ball around the room. They are dead now, but previous cat/dog combos would have played with the ball together.
lowdose 6y ago
Maybe someone can hack it to a uncatchable dog toy.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  I do wonder how long I could interest my cat with a small solid sphere that will periodically roll. And play dead while in the cat's death embrace.
faeyanpiraat 6y ago
imagine playing counter strike with that
npunt 6y ago
Great work! It makes me wonder if a few things could be possible: 1. Make the surface of the ball a multitouch trackpad surface so you could pinch zoom in and out and two finger scroll up and down, all on the ball itself. Make it only work when the ball is not pressed on hard enough to move. 2. Make the ball slightly squeezable, which registers as a click. That way you could roll it around on your desk or on the base. This honestly would also be a great kids computer toy so they don't have to get their hands near the device itself. 3. Add electromagnets inside on all sides and place the ball on a magnetic trackpad or base. When squeezed it would turn on the downward-facing electromagnet in the ball to make it harder to move, so you could engage in finer detail work. Probably a materials challenge to do any of these but it would be really cool to see these new input frontiers explored.
- iFreilicht 6y ago
  I like the interaction ideas, and I think both 1 and 2 could work the way you describe, but 3 would probably be better solved inside the base. The bearing balls could be spring-loaded so when you press down, you engage with some other surface that acts like a brake? Not super sure if that's what users would want, tough, it would probably make "throwing" the cursor harder.
  - christkv 6y ago
    The Logitech mx ergo has this with a little switch and it’s super useful.
- Andrex 6y ago
  Squeeze to click is such a cool idea for this. If it became a real product I could see myself buying one.
- riversflow 6y ago
  I don’t think it’s so much a materials challenge as a manufacturing one. Putting a multitouch digitizer uniformly over the surface of a sphere is AFAIK a unique challenge. I’m not sure how you could make the ball slightly squeezable yet hard and acceptably round to make for a nice trackball experience. As the OP points out, it’s easy to notice when things aren’t perfectly round. I think the best thing to do would be to just use the touch sensors, but I’m not super deep in the sensors world, maybe their is some sort of internal stress sensor that you could use to see if it is getting squeezed. I think you’d have to switch the fixed magnet into the trackball, as I can’t see electromagnets of sufficient strength working on power beamed inside a ball. You need a “magic” algorithm and some fancy electormagnets in the base to try and attempt to create an “increased resistance” mode as you descri e. Alone this is a very interesting, and I suspect difficult problem that may have some prior art. I’m not an EE, but I feel like this is something that one might be able to do some back of the envelope calculations on to see if the adequate force is realistic given space and power constraints. One thought I had is that you might be able to use the resistance between emf fields and conductors, but without some sort of exotic metamaterial I don’t think you could get adequate resistance. Anyway, I can only think of one company that could take this on, Apple. And if Apple got on it, one thing that would be neat is if the ball had xyz linear actuators so that it would click.
punnerud 6y ago
Seems to work just like the Sphero: https://sphero.com/collections/all/family_sphero https://sphero.com/collections/all/family_sphero Could not find the Pc/Mac part of the program from the article. Should be easy to make Sphero do the same.
- nmaggioni 6y ago
  From last time I hacked something up with a Sphero [1] I remember having to lock the motors to read the raw gyro/acc data, this would make the ball itself quite unbalanced but it's an interesting idea nonetheless. [1]: https://github.com/nmaggioni/flysphero https://github.com/nmaggioni/flysphero
- darkwater 6y ago
  Totally unrelated question: according to Sphero website they charge you specifically for 1y/2y/3y warranties. I think in the EU at least this is not legal, 1y warranty from the producer is mandatory, and in some cases it must be 2. Obviously, covered by the price of the good.
- jfedor2 6y ago
  There is no PC part. It is a standard Bluetooth mouse and works with any computer, tablet or phone with no additional software, as long as it supports the standard protocol.
nmaggioni 6y ago
Great execution, and the author's blog has a bunch of other very interesting HID-related posts.
sdfjkl 6y ago
Isn't the ball terribly unbalanced? Trackball users often "throw" the cursor, where the ball rotates freely at speed, and it would induce an awkward wobble with an unbalanced ball.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  I'm an avid trackball user, and this is one of the key attractions. I can flick the cursor from one side of my dual 1440p monitor set to the other, very quickly. It also works quite well with triple monitor setups.
Wildgoose 6y ago
For a moment I was hoping there was a replacement for the wonderful (and ancient) Microsoft Trackball Explorer. If you are right-handed then it is ergonomically shaped to fit your hand. Use your fingers to move the (large) ball and your thumb to press the buttons. Comfortable and natural to use. The fact that refurbished models sell for very high prices shows just how good they are.
- jfedor2 6y ago
  Personally I'm a (platonic) fan of the Microsoft EasyBall.
codesnik 6y ago
how do you set an initial orientation of the cursor? how does it know, where's "up" cursor direction?
- jfedor2 6y ago
  It doesn't know so the initial orientation is arbitrary. You have to set the "up" direction by touching the ball with a magnet in the right spot (there's a reed switch inside) and rotating it around the Z (vertical) axis until the directions are correct.
roland35 6y ago
This is awesome! With all the interest in gaming/home offices/high end peripherals one thing I was thinking of making a device similar to my 3d connexion to help with simple navigation and scrolling. My 3d connexion puck is great for CAD work, but it doesn't have the range to easily scroll through documents or code accurately. Hopefully I'll have something to share soon!
hawski 6y ago
That is very nice. I wonder how could one integrate left mouse click in there and also if it would be a fun unconventional gaming controller for a tailor made game. It would have to be balanced, as one of the commenters wondered here. A graph coming from playing with it like a ball would be interesting to see. I gather people reading this thread could have some knowledge regarding Linux/X11 input devices handling. I bought a TLK keyboard with a trackball built in and I would like to use it as a scrolling ball. But I would like for it to send events like from two finger scroll on a touchpad, that applications aware of it would scroll smoothly like on a Macbook or a Chromebook. I assume it has to do with libinput. How could I approach this? Bonus points if I could use scroll-lock key and indicator for the scrolling mode. EDIT: I bought this one: https://perixx.com/furniture_store_view/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/409/s/perixx-periboard-505h-plus-wired-usb-trackball-keyboard-built-in-2x-usb2-0-hubs/ https://perixx.com/furniture_store_view/catalog/product/view... One issue I have with it: I don't know where is the numlock key, probably something with Fn keycombo, but they did not print much on key caps. EDIT2: I found out, that what I want is smooth and precise scrolling - https://pavelfatin.com/scrolling-with-pleasure/ https://pavelfatin.com/scrolling-with-pleasure/
- nsajko 6y ago
  What you are asking for seems to be described here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Libinput#Scroll_with_mouse_by_holding_a_button https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Libinput#Scroll_with_mo... https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Marble_Mouse https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Marble_Mouse Alternatively, buy an input device that runs QMK; then you will be able to configure this at the input device's end (independently of the host device). For example, the Ploopy open source trackball and mouse run QMK, see this for configuring the trackball for scrolling: https://www.reddit.com/r/ploopy/comments/kw80a3/use_ball_as_scroll_wheel/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ploopy/comments/kw80a3/use_ball_as_...
  - hawski 6y ago
    Thank you kindly! After I issued xinput set-prop "HID 04d9:a088 Mouse" "libinput Button Scrolling Button" 3 it works, because this trackball does not have the default button 2. All with precise and smooth scrolling where it's supported. I'll enable smooth scrolling on Firefox to make use of it. Now I'll only figure out if there is a setting to keep it enabled by default - to inverse the scroll button behavior. EDIT: Issuing xinput set-prop "HID 04d9:a088 Mouse" "libinput Button Scrolling Button Lock Enabled" 1 Changes the scroll button behavior to a toggle. So it is exactly as I wanted. Perfect! Thanks again!
kzrdude 6y ago
I'm just curious about language, where does the "Mark II" terminology come from? It sounds military or weapons related, but that could be wrong.
- roland35 6y ago
  Seems like it came from the idea of adding a simple "mark" for each revision! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(designation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(designation)
  - kzrdude 6y ago
    Oh, thanks for finding that. Seems my hunch about weapons was right, for some (to me unknown) reason.
- layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
  It's from the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_2
- jfedor2 6y ago
  I'm sure there's a perfectly valid historical explanation, but I'm just referencing the suit naming scheme from Iron Man.
127 6y ago
Very inspiring work. Thanks for sharing.
z5h 6y ago
Excellent work, I'm very impressed. Having said that, I've experienced RSI in the past with several pointing devices (mice are the worst for me), and trackballs. I actually find the touchpad on Mac laptops to be nearly the least aggravating option (the best being my old Fingerworks iGesture Pad). Do many people suffer from the Apple trackpad or find it unusable?
- alanbernstein 6y ago
  I started having wrist pain recently. After trying a few tilted mouse options, I realized a better solution is to use a Mac standalone touch pad, and mount it on a tilt. That's the best solution I've found so far.
divingdragon 6y ago
It is a very intriguing idea, but without integrated mouse buttons and a dedicated scroll wheel, it has to be used in conjunction with a custom keyboard. I love my CST (now X-Keys) L-Trac trackball and I don't think the OP trackball can replace it. That said, it might be interesting to use one as a secondary input device. Hmm...
baybal2 6y ago
Very interesting, but where do you put buttons?
- notagoodidea 6y ago
  On a specific layer of your keyboard. For example, using QMK with compatible keyboards, you can have you're right/left mouse click on a specific layer. You can imagine this kind of trackball integrated with a split keyboard.
bilekas 6y ago
This is really cool.. Is there any intention for this to be used for physically impaired? I would see that as a 'useful' application
5tefan 6y ago
Trackball for 20 years now exclusively. I like it. Can imagine it is a little unstable. It's rather high. I like the idea to have the keys separate from the trackball. Drag and drop for example can put some strain on my wrist.

409 points by mbreese 6y ago

That’s really well-done. Kudos! I was never a fan of trackballs (except for a couple of video games that gave me bruised palms), but this would be fun. But we’d have to see how it works out, over time. I have an old “gyro mouse,”[0] in my “junk drawer.” It was something I could never really get to like, even though it is cool. [0] https://www.gyration.com/ https://www.gyration.com/

isoprophlex 6y ago

Whoa! What a great idea, makes total sense once you see it. Maybe there's a possibility to build squeeze-to-click? Finger squeeze for click, press down with your palm for right click?

ptman 6y ago
Why would you need more than one mouse button? /s
andai 6y ago
And fondle gently for middle click.
- isoprophlex 6y ago
  Apple iBalls, with contextual rubbing!

Tepix 6y ago

Super cool. Could it use a 3d compass to determine the "forward" direction?

roland35 6y ago
You can see your local magnetic field using NOAA's handy online tool: https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?useFullSite=true#igrfwmm https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?u... I didn't realize this earlier but my local magnetic field is actually mostly vertical! North: 19,625.7 nT West: -2,932.5 nT Vertical: 48,731.3 nT
jfedor2 6y ago
It does use a 3D compass (magnetometer), but it still needs to be told which direction is "up" as that depends on your orientation with regard to the screen.

gedy 6y ago

That's really brilliant, I'm a big trackball fan since the 90s.

nerdwaller 6y ago
This project and concept is really awesome. However for me - I’ve never found one that has everything I want, and I haven’t taken the time to try to make it yet. However I really want the Logitech marble mouse with a scroll wheel. If I could have that combination I’d be pretty elated.
- tyingq 6y ago
  There's a Kensington trackball where you spin a ring for scrollwheel: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81T0oXLJoBL._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81T0oXLJoBL...
  - comboy 6y ago
    Kensington expert mouse has that. I use it, it's the best I found but its still far from great. The way the ring spins feels as you were moving plastic over plastic without any bearings - which is actually what's happening. Btw I think your picture is a Slimblade model in which you have to rotate the ball. Logitech Ergo MX is fine, it's built much better but Kensigton design is superior. It's not possible to be that accurate with a thumb and you also move slower because of a smaller ball. With KEM you can be fast and accurate. And scroll design is great, just badly implemented.
    - Uberphallus 6y ago
      Exactly, Expert Mouse = ring, Slimblade = the ball itself. In Slimblade you can scroll from your neutral hand position, that's what sells it to me. I've owned a Slimblade for 10 years, have tried all sorts of trackballs, and I can't imagine anything better for daily use. I got the KEM for work, but requiring hand adjustment to scroll feels like a definite step back, so I sent it back and ordered a second Slimblade instead.

Pxtl 6y ago

An I the only one seeing nothing for "here it is in action"?

ORioN63 6y ago
Same. Here it is (fetched from source): https://www.youtube.com/embed/QbE3H4vglHw https://www.youtube.com/embed/QbE3H4vglHw
jfedor2 6y ago
Ahh, it was broken on mobile. Should be working now.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jrmg 6y ago

This is awesome! You should collaborate with this guy on Reddit who made a trackball sanding rig: https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/ko2vvs/i_didnt_want_to_buy_huge_polisher_or_special_ball/ https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/ko2vvs/i_d... https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/kptk0h/version_2_of_trackball_sandingpolishing_machine/ https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/kptk0h/ver... https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/l0g8ml/finally_my_ball_sander_polisher_has_been/ https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/l0g8ml/fin... for his custom trackballs: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/knkcnx/55mm_3d_printed_trackball_using_qmk_and_pmw_3360/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/knkcnx...

hombre_fatal 6y ago
> I can only imagine your google searches during the gestation period of this project I just finally branched out from software into hobby hardware and I'm eating up these tinkerer subreddits alive. Thanks for a new one. I impulse-bought an Arduino Uno (well, the much cheaper Elegoo Uno) starter kit and e-ink display and have been working on my own personal-needs Kindle replacement. Wish I did this as a kid or in uni. Oh well, never too late. Having lots of fun. The only regret is encumbering my minimalist nomad lifestyle with a multimeter, soldering iron kit, and more when my life had, just a month ago, fit into two duffel bags! A 3D printer is off the table at the moment.
- mbreese 6y ago
  Have you checked out this project [1]? I found this one yesterday too. It’s a project working on an ebook built from various microcontrollers. [1] https://github.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book https://github.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book
- mjlee 6y ago
  You can get USB multimeters and oscilloscopes and the TS 80 soldering iron is nice and compact. Also - consider local maker/hackerspaces if they're available (and, well, probably in a few months time in any event).
- 6y ago

blackrock 6y ago

I wish laptops had a trackball or scroll wheel instead. I've always disliked the trackpad. And to do any serious work, I have to pull out a regular mouse.

jackyinger 6y ago

This is really cool. It could easily be taken to the next level of miniaturization by building a custom PCB to integrate all of the components. I bet a 1.5” diameter would be achievable! Edit: Simple PCB fabric services are very cheap these days.

slezyr 6y ago

This might be used as a replacement for a SpaceMouse[1] and control Blender3D as in this video[2]. 1: https://3dconnexion.com/ua/product/spacemouse-wireless/ https://3dconnexion.com/ua/product/spacemouse-wireless/ 2: https://youtu.be/wGx4T8OH10Y?t=44 https://youtu.be/wGx4T8OH10Y?t=44

ipsum2 6y ago
SpaceMouse has a Z-axis (lifting the knob up), which is really useful to zoom in and out of a 3d model. That can't be captured with just IMUs.
- bondarchuk 6y ago
  What if you count rotation around the vertical axis? I have a kensington trackball where that is how you scroll.
  - codetrotter 6y ago
    Then you can no longer rotate, unless you make it rotate when you push some additional button. The 3DConnexion devices have 6 degrees of freedom without pushing any additional buttons. That being said I have a SpaceNavigator and I don’t use it, it’s just sitting in a drawer and I use my regular mouse and keyboard even in Blender.
bambax 6y ago
Makes me wonder if it would make sense to have rotary encoders for precision work -- something that would work like in an Etch A Sketch. The pointer could be positionned with great accuracy and wouldn't move by accident. It may not be too hard to make a prototype with an Arduino. Or maybe somebody already tried it?

sparrish 6y ago

Built by a man who obviously doesn't own a dog. "Anybody seen my mouse that looks like a ball?"

m463 6y ago
I imagine a man in a tug of war with his dog and behind him all the windows keep getting dragged off the screen.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  In my experience my cat would therefore see this as an opportunity to steal my chair so the animals win regardless
  - bluGill 6y ago
    My cat would be batting the ball around the room. They are dead now, but previous cat/dog combos would have played with the ball together.

lowdose 6y ago

Maybe someone can hack it to a uncatchable dog toy.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
I do wonder how long I could interest my cat with a small solid sphere that will periodically roll. And play dead while in the cat's death embrace.

faeyanpiraat 6y ago

imagine playing counter strike with that

npunt 6y ago

Great work! It makes me wonder if a few things could be possible: 1. Make the surface of the ball a multitouch trackpad surface so you could pinch zoom in and out and two finger scroll up and down, all on the ball itself. Make it only work when the ball is not pressed on hard enough to move. 2. Make the ball slightly squeezable, which registers as a click. That way you could roll it around on your desk or on the base. This honestly would also be a great kids computer toy so they don't have to get their hands near the device itself. 3. Add electromagnets inside on all sides and place the ball on a magnetic trackpad or base. When squeezed it would turn on the downward-facing electromagnet in the ball to make it harder to move, so you could engage in finer detail work. Probably a materials challenge to do any of these but it would be really cool to see these new input frontiers explored.

iFreilicht 6y ago
I like the interaction ideas, and I think both 1 and 2 could work the way you describe, but 3 would probably be better solved inside the base. The bearing balls could be spring-loaded so when you press down, you engage with some other surface that acts like a brake? Not super sure if that's what users would want, tough, it would probably make "throwing" the cursor harder.
- christkv 6y ago
  The Logitech mx ergo has this with a little switch and it’s super useful.
Andrex 6y ago
Squeeze to click is such a cool idea for this. If it became a real product I could see myself buying one.
riversflow 6y ago
I don’t think it’s so much a materials challenge as a manufacturing one. Putting a multitouch digitizer uniformly over the surface of a sphere is AFAIK a unique challenge. I’m not sure how you could make the ball slightly squeezable yet hard and acceptably round to make for a nice trackball experience. As the OP points out, it’s easy to notice when things aren’t perfectly round. I think the best thing to do would be to just use the touch sensors, but I’m not super deep in the sensors world, maybe their is some sort of internal stress sensor that you could use to see if it is getting squeezed. I think you’d have to switch the fixed magnet into the trackball, as I can’t see electromagnets of sufficient strength working on power beamed inside a ball. You need a “magic” algorithm and some fancy electormagnets in the base to try and attempt to create an “increased resistance” mode as you descri e. Alone this is a very interesting, and I suspect difficult problem that may have some prior art. I’m not an EE, but I feel like this is something that one might be able to do some back of the envelope calculations on to see if the adequate force is realistic given space and power constraints. One thought I had is that you might be able to use the resistance between emf fields and conductors, but without some sort of exotic metamaterial I don’t think you could get adequate resistance. Anyway, I can only think of one company that could take this on, Apple. And if Apple got on it, one thing that would be neat is if the ball had xyz linear actuators so that it would click.

punnerud 6y ago

Seems to work just like the Sphero: https://sphero.com/collections/all/family_sphero https://sphero.com/collections/all/family_sphero Could not find the Pc/Mac part of the program from the article. Should be easy to make Sphero do the same.

nmaggioni 6y ago
From last time I hacked something up with a Sphero [1] I remember having to lock the motors to read the raw gyro/acc data, this would make the ball itself quite unbalanced but it's an interesting idea nonetheless. [1]: https://github.com/nmaggioni/flysphero https://github.com/nmaggioni/flysphero
darkwater 6y ago
Totally unrelated question: according to Sphero website they charge you specifically for 1y/2y/3y warranties. I think in the EU at least this is not legal, 1y warranty from the producer is mandatory, and in some cases it must be 2. Obviously, covered by the price of the good.
jfedor2 6y ago
There is no PC part. It is a standard Bluetooth mouse and works with any computer, tablet or phone with no additional software, as long as it supports the standard protocol.

nmaggioni 6y ago

Great execution, and the author's blog has a bunch of other very interesting HID-related posts.

sdfjkl 6y ago

Isn't the ball terribly unbalanced? Trackball users often "throw" the cursor, where the ball rotates freely at speed, and it would induce an awkward wobble with an unbalanced ball.

stcredzero 6y ago
I'm an avid trackball user, and this is one of the key attractions. I can flick the cursor from one side of my dual 1440p monitor set to the other, very quickly. It also works quite well with triple monitor setups.

Wildgoose 6y ago

For a moment I was hoping there was a replacement for the wonderful (and ancient) Microsoft Trackball Explorer. If you are right-handed then it is ergonomically shaped to fit your hand. Use your fingers to move the (large) ball and your thumb to press the buttons. Comfortable and natural to use. The fact that refurbished models sell for very high prices shows just how good they are.

jfedor2 6y ago
Personally I'm a (platonic) fan of the Microsoft EasyBall.

codesnik 6y ago

how do you set an initial orientation of the cursor? how does it know, where's "up" cursor direction?

jfedor2 6y ago
It doesn't know so the initial orientation is arbitrary. You have to set the "up" direction by touching the ball with a magnet in the right spot (there's a reed switch inside) and rotating it around the Z (vertical) axis until the directions are correct.

roland35 6y ago

This is awesome! With all the interest in gaming/home offices/high end peripherals one thing I was thinking of making a device similar to my 3d connexion to help with simple navigation and scrolling. My 3d connexion puck is great for CAD work, but it doesn't have the range to easily scroll through documents or code accurately. Hopefully I'll have something to share soon!

hawski 6y ago

That is very nice. I wonder how could one integrate left mouse click in there and also if it would be a fun unconventional gaming controller for a tailor made game. It would have to be balanced, as one of the commenters wondered here. A graph coming from playing with it like a ball would be interesting to see. I gather people reading this thread could have some knowledge regarding Linux/X11 input devices handling. I bought a TLK keyboard with a trackball built in and I would like to use it as a scrolling ball. But I would like for it to send events like from two finger scroll on a touchpad, that applications aware of it would scroll smoothly like on a Macbook or a Chromebook. I assume it has to do with libinput. How could I approach this? Bonus points if I could use scroll-lock key and indicator for the scrolling mode. EDIT: I bought this one: https://perixx.com/furniture_store_view/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/409/s/perixx-periboard-505h-plus-wired-usb-trackball-keyboard-built-in-2x-usb2-0-hubs/ https://perixx.com/furniture_store_view/catalog/product/view... One issue I have with it: I don't know where is the numlock key, probably something with Fn keycombo, but they did not print much on key caps. EDIT2: I found out, that what I want is smooth and precise scrolling - https://pavelfatin.com/scrolling-with-pleasure/ https://pavelfatin.com/scrolling-with-pleasure/

nsajko 6y ago
What you are asking for seems to be described here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Libinput#Scroll_with_mouse_by_holding_a_button https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Libinput#Scroll_with_mo... https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Marble_Mouse https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Marble_Mouse Alternatively, buy an input device that runs QMK; then you will be able to configure this at the input device's end (independently of the host device). For example, the Ploopy open source trackball and mouse run QMK, see this for configuring the trackball for scrolling: https://www.reddit.com/r/ploopy/comments/kw80a3/use_ball_as_scroll_wheel/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ploopy/comments/kw80a3/use_ball_as_...
- hawski 6y ago
  Thank you kindly! After I issued xinput set-prop "HID 04d9:a088 Mouse" "libinput Button Scrolling Button" 3 it works, because this trackball does not have the default button 2. All with precise and smooth scrolling where it's supported. I'll enable smooth scrolling on Firefox to make use of it. Now I'll only figure out if there is a setting to keep it enabled by default - to inverse the scroll button behavior. EDIT: Issuing xinput set-prop "HID 04d9:a088 Mouse" "libinput Button Scrolling Button Lock Enabled" 1 Changes the scroll button behavior to a toggle. So it is exactly as I wanted. Perfect! Thanks again!

kzrdude 6y ago

I'm just curious about language, where does the "Mark II" terminology come from? It sounds military or weapons related, but that could be wrong.

roland35 6y ago
Seems like it came from the idea of adding a simple "mark" for each revision! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(designation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(designation)
- kzrdude 6y ago
  Oh, thanks for finding that. Seems my hunch about weapons was right, for some (to me unknown) reason.
layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
It's from the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_2
jfedor2 6y ago
I'm sure there's a perfectly valid historical explanation, but I'm just referencing the suit naming scheme from Iron Man.

127 6y ago

Very inspiring work. Thanks for sharing.

z5h 6y ago

Excellent work, I'm very impressed. Having said that, I've experienced RSI in the past with several pointing devices (mice are the worst for me), and trackballs. I actually find the touchpad on Mac laptops to be nearly the least aggravating option (the best being my old Fingerworks iGesture Pad). Do many people suffer from the Apple trackpad or find it unusable?

alanbernstein 6y ago
I started having wrist pain recently. After trying a few tilted mouse options, I realized a better solution is to use a Mac standalone touch pad, and mount it on a tilt. That's the best solution I've found so far.

divingdragon 6y ago

It is a very intriguing idea, but without integrated mouse buttons and a dedicated scroll wheel, it has to be used in conjunction with a custom keyboard. I love my CST (now X-Keys) L-Trac trackball and I don't think the OP trackball can replace it. That said, it might be interesting to use one as a secondary input device. Hmm...

baybal2 6y ago

Very interesting, but where do you put buttons?

notagoodidea 6y ago
On a specific layer of your keyboard. For example, using QMK with compatible keyboards, you can have you're right/left mouse click on a specific layer. You can imagine this kind of trackball integrated with a split keyboard.

bilekas 6y ago

This is really cool.. Is there any intention for this to be used for physically impaired? I would see that as a 'useful' application

5tefan 6y ago

Trackball for 20 years now exclusively. I like it. Can imagine it is a little unstable. It's rather high. I like the idea to have the keys separate from the trackball. Drag and drop for example can put some strain on my wrist.