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The problem with this article is that it takes at face value the stated goals of the pandemic response: to slow the spread of coronavirus. And while that is a g

The problem with this article is that it takes at face value the stated goals of the pandemic response: to slow the spread of coronavirus. And while that is a goal, it is not the top goal. If it could be, it probably would be. The main goal is to soothe the public. People aren't told to wipe surfaces because it reduces the spread, people are told to wipe surfaces because this is all people can do. People are told to wear surgical masks, which say on the side of the box that they do not protect against viruses, because it is something they can do. People don't like to feel powerless. People cannot disinfect the air. But they can wipe surfaces and cover their faces with a piece of cloth, and keep busy with something to feel like they're doing something to protect themselves and others. Public messaging exist to manage people, nothing more.

pbourke 6y ago
> People are told to wear surgical masks, which say on the side of the box that they do not protect against viruses, because it is something they can do. It likely has some protection, and it inhibits the onward spread of the virus. If enough people wear them, it has a protective effect on the entire population: “The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts.” https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
- betwixthewires 6y ago
  Wearing a grocery bag instead of a condom will likely also reduce your risk of unwanted pregnancy, that doesn't translate into being effectively protective. Masks help lower droplets and aerosol in the air from your breath. So they slow the contagion. But they do not stop it, if the average person were likely to contract a contagion within 6 months with normal behavior and a mask reduces transmissibility by 50%, this just means the average person is now likely to contract it within a year. It slows the spread. It does not reduce your risk of contracting the virus over your lifetime. And if you have comorbidities and are at risk, you are just as likely to die when you get it 1 year from now or 6 months from now. Masks did give us more time to develop a vaccine. So in the end they helped society. But they do not protect you. The only ways to protect yourself are a vaccine, social isolation until the contagion is eradicated, or hermetically sealing yourself in a plastic bodysuit every time you are in close proximity to other people. A lot of people confuse these two concepts (managing a population vs managing individuals) and think that they apply to and correlate directly with one another. They do not. It is the same counterintuitive mistake as misunderstanding test accuracy and false positive rate. This is the only point I was trying to make. CDC guidelines are not designed to protect you in a pandemic, they're designed to manage a population.
  - AstralStorm 6y ago
    By masks, I presume you mean surgical or cloth masks. FFPs are known highly effective in protecting people both ways against virus this large, more or less indefinitely, assuming there's no operational error. Trouble being that apparently USA cannot make enough of them. Mind you, operational error is likely over longer timespans.
Johnny555 6y ago
which say on the side of the box that they do not protect against viruses As has been stated repeatedly by the CDC and others, the mask guidelines aren't meant to protect you from the virus, they are meant to protect others from you by reducing the viral laden droplets that you spread while breathing and talking. There's a reason why they are called "surgical masks", because those are the masks that surgeons wear to protect you from them.
- betwixthewires 6y ago
  I understand this. They do not protect others against viruses from you either. My wording that you quoted was misstated on my part, that's the culprit here, but read the next box of masks you see. And I know the CDC can't be directly blamed for this, but how many people do you know that wear masks because they don't want to get sick? Probably all of them, besides the ones that wear it so they don't get hassled in public. This is the subtle thing in the marketing (yes, marketing, they're not selling anything but it is the same process) encouraging you to wear masks. People might consciously know if you asked them that masks don't protect themselves, but in their lizard brain they're protecting themselves. People jogging alone or driving on their car alone wearing a mask aren't doing it to protect other people. If every advertisement telling people to wear masks explicitly reminded them that it does not protect them, a lot of people wouldn't bother to wear them.

pbourke 6y ago

> People are told to wear surgical masks, which say on the side of the box that they do not protect against viruses, because it is something they can do. It likely has some protection, and it inhibits the onward spread of the virus. If enough people wear them, it has a protective effect on the entire population: “The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts.” https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

betwixthewires 6y ago
Wearing a grocery bag instead of a condom will likely also reduce your risk of unwanted pregnancy, that doesn't translate into being effectively protective. Masks help lower droplets and aerosol in the air from your breath. So they slow the contagion. But they do not stop it, if the average person were likely to contract a contagion within 6 months with normal behavior and a mask reduces transmissibility by 50%, this just means the average person is now likely to contract it within a year. It slows the spread. It does not reduce your risk of contracting the virus over your lifetime. And if you have comorbidities and are at risk, you are just as likely to die when you get it 1 year from now or 6 months from now. Masks did give us more time to develop a vaccine. So in the end they helped society. But they do not protect you. The only ways to protect yourself are a vaccine, social isolation until the contagion is eradicated, or hermetically sealing yourself in a plastic bodysuit every time you are in close proximity to other people. A lot of people confuse these two concepts (managing a population vs managing individuals) and think that they apply to and correlate directly with one another. They do not. It is the same counterintuitive mistake as misunderstanding test accuracy and false positive rate. This is the only point I was trying to make. CDC guidelines are not designed to protect you in a pandemic, they're designed to manage a population.
- AstralStorm 6y ago
  By masks, I presume you mean surgical or cloth masks. FFPs are known highly effective in protecting people both ways against virus this large, more or less indefinitely, assuming there's no operational error. Trouble being that apparently USA cannot make enough of them. Mind you, operational error is likely over longer timespans.

Johnny555 6y ago

which say on the side of the box that they do not protect against viruses As has been stated repeatedly by the CDC and others, the mask guidelines aren't meant to protect you from the virus, they are meant to protect others from you by reducing the viral laden droplets that you spread while breathing and talking. There's a reason why they are called "surgical masks", because those are the masks that surgeons wear to protect you from them.

betwixthewires 6y ago
I understand this. They do not protect others against viruses from you either. My wording that you quoted was misstated on my part, that's the culprit here, but read the next box of masks you see. And I know the CDC can't be directly blamed for this, but how many people do you know that wear masks because they don't want to get sick? Probably all of them, besides the ones that wear it so they don't get hassled in public. This is the subtle thing in the marketing (yes, marketing, they're not selling anything but it is the same process) encouraging you to wear masks. People might consciously know if you asked them that masks don't protect themselves, but in their lizard brain they're protecting themselves. People jogging alone or driving on their car alone wearing a mask aren't doing it to protect other people. If every advertisement telling people to wear masks explicitly reminded them that it does not protect them, a lot of people wouldn't bother to wear them.