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What is way more interesting is that the media can be weaponized by hedge funds, in that many (all?) outlets were incorrectly reporting, that r/wallstreetbets w

What is way more interesting is that the media can be weaponized by hedge funds, in that many (all?) outlets were incorrectly reporting, that r/wallstreetbets was hyping silver instead of GME now. To me the whole story certainly brought up a few things worth regulating. Why can brokers just arbitrarily decide to stop trading specific stocks? Why can different entities lend stocks for the purpose of shorting against the interests of the very owner of said stocks? Isn't shorting more than (or next to) 100% of the free float of a company too big of a risk for the whole system and how can we circumvent that in the future? Before the whole thing, I had the impression, that stocks are safe. Not necessarily their price, but the stocks themself. I was aware that they are a separate asset and don't belong to the assets of the broker. Little did I know that brokers could still just lend them out and that I would only get a maximum of 20,000 € back over here in Germany, in case shit actually would hit the fan. I want to be able to print out my stocks and physically put them somewhere or put them on a blockchain! How is it possible, that in 2021 I could actually lose my ownership rights to a company, because someone else is using it to gamble?

esyir 6y ago
Personally, I feel like all those news orgs should be liable for something. Blatantly lying to a huge audience in an attempt to influence the market to me feels like blatant market manipulation, especially in time-sensitive situations. If anything, this should be an eye opener to many. The media isn't your friend, and hasn't been your friend for a long time, if ever. Journalism is dead, and primarily exists as a tool of manipulation far more insidious than any government run propaganda campaign. They don't exist to report what has happened, or to inform; They exist to shape opinion and control their readers.
- monoideism 6y ago
  > They don't exist to report what has happened, or to inform; They exist to shape opinion and control their readers. That's been the case for some time now, but there will be major pushback from many HNers, who believe we're attacking a pillar of our democracy. And yes, an independent media is an important part of a democracy. But most of our mainstream media are party-affiliated, not independent. They're party mouthpieces. And both parties are highly influenced by our major corporations, particularly the finance industry. Between a warped media, swarm-mind on social media, and societal upheavals like pandemics and rioting (at the Capitol and elsewhere), we're reaching a tipping point. I wish people would turn off their TVs, and their Facebook+Twitter. It's probably our only chance of avoiding the chasm we're fast approaching.
reducesuffering 6y ago
You're spreading r/wallstreetbets misinformation. They WERE hyping up and trying to squeeze silver at the same time, or preparing for right after GME squeeze, but when the GME outrage broke mainstream, r/wallstreetbets very quickly changed into conspiratorial fashion with complete denial: "we never hyped silver, keep buying GME, it's a distraction, FAKE NEWS!" Here's four highly popular r/wallstreetbets threads that were pumping silver at the time.[0][1][2] They even deleted the evidence on [3]. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6fgbn/the_other_post_about_slv_is_absolutely_correct/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6fgbn/the_... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6novm/the_real_dd_on_slv_the_worlds_biggest_short/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6novm/the_... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l76885/the_silver_short_squeeze_is_just_beginning/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l76885/the_... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l68ill/the_biggest_short_squeeze_in_the_world_slv_silver/?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=ios_app&amp;utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l68ill/the_... The world is running into serious problems with rampant misinformation on social media echo chambers / filter bubbles.
- allendoerfer 6y ago
  Aren't all of those threads older than 5 days? I actually visited r/wsb during the last few days to watch the show. While I cannot be sure, that there were no threads about SLV, I am very sure, that to this day GME was the stock being hyped. There was not a sudden switch from GME to SLV like reported today.
  - reducesuffering 6y ago
    Yes, and that's why you're misinformed because you just observed the last few days of their denials, but why are you spreading this if you didn't observe the whole past two weeks or did some research to back up your claims? Jan 21st, 12 days ago GME started really being pumped. Then 6 days ago they just started simultaneously piling onto silver pumping threads, along with GME. When the GME outrage started due to the buying halts on Jan. 28th, there was a huge flood of activity, and people piled back entirely onto GME that day, but at the same time reporters were combing through the previous threads, that were pumping silver, and started writing articles assuming silver was the next pump. They weren't making anything up, they're just some hours behind the top threads of WSB because of how chaotic the activity is.
hehehaha 6y ago
You know why a stock typically goes up whenever Wall Street “research” upgrades it? Their sales team spam calls all of their clients. I don’t understand how that’s any different from what happens on r/wsb. It’s really not the “DD” that matters but creating flow. Why firms like Merrill Lynch was feared. The whole industry is a complete joke and Wall Street doesn’t like the fact that their little complex is getting disintermediated even further as machines and self-directed individuals take over.
jb775 6y ago
Apparently the reason Robinhood halted purchases of $GME was because they received a middle of the night call from the National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) demanding $3 Billion immediately[1]. The NSCC refused to explain exactly how the $3 Billion was calculated, and they eventually settled on a much lower number in exchange for RH (and other brokerages) agreeing to halt purchases of specific stocks (the stocks that were shorted by the hedge funds). After some research into the NSCC, looks like they're a very opaque & private company ran by a bunch of former hedge fund guys[2]. Also, their board of directors appears to include some active hedge fund guys. Considering this is all it took to block millions of retail traders, I'd say we have a very serious situation that needs to be investigated. Especially considering the trades involved were extremely time sensitive (e.g. put options set to expire worthless unless the stock dropped dramatically, stalled purchase momentum, etc). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M7X2dsW_Xw&t=5m25s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M7X2dsW_Xw&t=5m25s [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/15236Z:US https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/15236Z:US
zajio1am 6y ago
> I was aware that they are a separate asset and don't belong to the assets of the broker. Little did I know that brokers could still just lend them out AFAIK they could lend them only if that is a part of the contract between you and your broker. My broker has a separate optional amendment to the brokerage contract for that, which is required only if i wanted margin account instead of regular brokerage account.
jb775 6y ago
This video explains exactly what the hedge funds are doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMShFx5rThI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMShFx5rThI
voisin 6y ago
Another question: Why is it legal for Robinhood and other trading platforms to sell out their users’ trades to hedge funds that front run them using High Frequency Trading?

esyir 6y ago

Personally, I feel like all those news orgs should be liable for something. Blatantly lying to a huge audience in an attempt to influence the market to me feels like blatant market manipulation, especially in time-sensitive situations. If anything, this should be an eye opener to many. The media isn't your friend, and hasn't been your friend for a long time, if ever. Journalism is dead, and primarily exists as a tool of manipulation far more insidious than any government run propaganda campaign. They don't exist to report what has happened, or to inform; They exist to shape opinion and control their readers.

monoideism 6y ago
> They don't exist to report what has happened, or to inform; They exist to shape opinion and control their readers. That's been the case for some time now, but there will be major pushback from many HNers, who believe we're attacking a pillar of our democracy. And yes, an independent media is an important part of a democracy. But most of our mainstream media are party-affiliated, not independent. They're party mouthpieces. And both parties are highly influenced by our major corporations, particularly the finance industry. Between a warped media, swarm-mind on social media, and societal upheavals like pandemics and rioting (at the Capitol and elsewhere), we're reaching a tipping point. I wish people would turn off their TVs, and their Facebook+Twitter. It's probably our only chance of avoiding the chasm we're fast approaching.

reducesuffering 6y ago

You're spreading r/wallstreetbets misinformation. They WERE hyping up and trying to squeeze silver at the same time, or preparing for right after GME squeeze, but when the GME outrage broke mainstream, r/wallstreetbets very quickly changed into conspiratorial fashion with complete denial: "we never hyped silver, keep buying GME, it's a distraction, FAKE NEWS!" Here's four highly popular r/wallstreetbets threads that were pumping silver at the time.[0][1][2] They even deleted the evidence on [3]. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6fgbn/the_other_post_about_slv_is_absolutely_correct/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6fgbn/the_... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6novm/the_real_dd_on_slv_the_worlds_biggest_short/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6novm/the_... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l76885/the_silver_short_squeeze_is_just_beginning/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l76885/the_... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l68ill/the_biggest_short_squeeze_in_the_world_slv_silver/?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=ios_app&amp;utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l68ill/the_... The world is running into serious problems with rampant misinformation on social media echo chambers / filter bubbles.

allendoerfer 6y ago
Aren't all of those threads older than 5 days? I actually visited r/wsb during the last few days to watch the show. While I cannot be sure, that there were no threads about SLV, I am very sure, that to this day GME was the stock being hyped. There was not a sudden switch from GME to SLV like reported today.
- reducesuffering 6y ago
  Yes, and that's why you're misinformed because you just observed the last few days of their denials, but why are you spreading this if you didn't observe the whole past two weeks or did some research to back up your claims? Jan 21st, 12 days ago GME started really being pumped. Then 6 days ago they just started simultaneously piling onto silver pumping threads, along with GME. When the GME outrage started due to the buying halts on Jan. 28th, there was a huge flood of activity, and people piled back entirely onto GME that day, but at the same time reporters were combing through the previous threads, that were pumping silver, and started writing articles assuming silver was the next pump. They weren't making anything up, they're just some hours behind the top threads of WSB because of how chaotic the activity is.

hehehaha 6y ago

You know why a stock typically goes up whenever Wall Street “research” upgrades it? Their sales team spam calls all of their clients. I don’t understand how that’s any different from what happens on r/wsb. It’s really not the “DD” that matters but creating flow. Why firms like Merrill Lynch was feared. The whole industry is a complete joke and Wall Street doesn’t like the fact that their little complex is getting disintermediated even further as machines and self-directed individuals take over.

jb775 6y ago

Apparently the reason Robinhood halted purchases of $GME was because they received a middle of the night call from the National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) demanding $3 Billion immediately[1]. The NSCC refused to explain exactly how the $3 Billion was calculated, and they eventually settled on a much lower number in exchange for RH (and other brokerages) agreeing to halt purchases of specific stocks (the stocks that were shorted by the hedge funds). After some research into the NSCC, looks like they're a very opaque & private company ran by a bunch of former hedge fund guys[2]. Also, their board of directors appears to include some active hedge fund guys. Considering this is all it took to block millions of retail traders, I'd say we have a very serious situation that needs to be investigated. Especially considering the trades involved were extremely time sensitive (e.g. put options set to expire worthless unless the stock dropped dramatically, stalled purchase momentum, etc). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M7X2dsW_Xw&t=5m25s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M7X2dsW_Xw&t=5m25s [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/15236Z:US https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/15236Z:US

zajio1am 6y ago

> I was aware that they are a separate asset and don't belong to the assets of the broker. Little did I know that brokers could still just lend them out AFAIK they could lend them only if that is a part of the contract between you and your broker. My broker has a separate optional amendment to the brokerage contract for that, which is required only if i wanted margin account instead of regular brokerage account.

jb775 6y ago

This video explains exactly what the hedge funds are doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMShFx5rThI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMShFx5rThI

voisin 6y ago

Another question: Why is it legal for Robinhood and other trading platforms to sell out their users’ trades to hedge funds that front run them using High Frequency Trading?