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I've posted this a lot, but I think it's important for those who claim Uyghur camps are some sort of Western propaganda. This site documents primary source evid

I've posted this a lot, but I think it's important for those who claim Uyghur camps are some sort of Western propaganda. This site documents primary source evidence of victims in Xinjiang. Testimonies from families and friends, court documents, photos, etc. Information on specific camps and seeing victims by city/village is newly available. What's happening there is horrible and consists of many human rights violations. https://shahit.biz/eng/ https://shahit.biz/eng/

MattGaiser 6y ago
> which China says exist for the "re-education" of the Uighurs and other minorities. Even China does not deny the camps. The disagreement almost seems to depend on whether "re-education" is considered sinister. In the West? Obviously. In China? That is apparently a normal thing to admit to doing.
- unityByFreedom 6y ago
  It's only normal in China because if you speak against it you and your family are disappeared. So, not really normal. The CCP can admit to a lot of bad things under these oppressive conditions.
- anm89 6y ago
  That's a weird word game to play. So you are pointing out that the government supports there own policy? In this potentially makes it not sinister? Yes, the obviously make an attempt to normalize their policy, just like every government does with every policy. The problem is what they are doing is wrong.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    I am surprised that the Chinese government so openly admits to behavior much of the rest of the world finds horrifying. I was also commenting on how people deny the camps exist even when the Chinese themselves admit they exist.
    - Paradigma11 6y ago
      The chinese government did deny most of the camps for a long time and only after repeatedly confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary changed their tune to widespread (re)education camps.
    - unityByFreedom 6y ago
      > I am surprised that the Chinese government so openly admits to behavior much of the rest of the world finds horrifying. They don't admit it, they whitewash atrocities by saying the camps are for "re-education".
      - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
        Which, if you look at the history of "re-education", is still horrifying.
        unityByFreedom 6y ago
        Anyone sold by the "re-education" line is not looking at the history.
- Koiwai 6y ago
  Tell me why "re-education" is sinister again? Uyghur economy has been relying on agriculture for centuries, and suffered from extreme poverty, they need education to adapt for this fast evolving world, how hard and far-fetched is that to understand?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisavl 6y ago
    It is sinister because re-education camp is a euphemism for concentration camp.
    - Koiwai 6y ago
      This is like kindergarten arguments. You: You have concentration camp! you're evil! China: No we have re-education camp. You: Ha, busted, you admit the camp existed, and re-education camp is concentration camp. I'm out.
  - cannabis_sam 6y ago
    Why do you ask this question? Usually, internment camps are bad. Meanwhile, there is true testimony. Also, why are Uyghurs singled out? Obviously this isn’t about poverty.
    - Koiwai 6y ago
      You say true testimony, I say single sided story. Uyghur separatists contributed too. BTW, years ago western media liked Tibet separatists AKA Dalai Lama, now they found a new pet.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    It's probably that whole "dumb" humanistic concept of choosing your own path in life rather than the government choosing it for you.
    - 6y ago
naebother 6y ago
Even if it is western propaganda, doesn't mean it's false. Just like any Chinese/Russian/etc propaganda might highlight the abuses of the US state. As individuals, regardless of which country we happen to live in, we shouldn't immediately dismiss any country's propaganda (including our own) just because it's propaganda. Does each side have an incentive to exaggerate or lie about the other? Of course! But if abuses are really happening the opposing side would be dumb not to propagandize it.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  Even if it's 1/10th the scale people are saying it is indeed still quite horrifying.
silexia 6y ago
What can actually be done against a dictator like Xi Jinping who has absolute power besides using military force? He doesn't care at all about the bad reputation or sanctions or anything else like that.
- fsflover 6y ago
  > He doesn't care at all about the bad reputation or sanctions Depends on which sanctions. Imagine everyone would stop producing electronics in China...

MattGaiser 6y ago

> which China says exist for the "re-education" of the Uighurs and other minorities. Even China does not deny the camps. The disagreement almost seems to depend on whether "re-education" is considered sinister. In the West? Obviously. In China? That is apparently a normal thing to admit to doing.

unityByFreedom 6y ago
It's only normal in China because if you speak against it you and your family are disappeared. So, not really normal. The CCP can admit to a lot of bad things under these oppressive conditions.
anm89 6y ago
That's a weird word game to play. So you are pointing out that the government supports there own policy? In this potentially makes it not sinister? Yes, the obviously make an attempt to normalize their policy, just like every government does with every policy. The problem is what they are doing is wrong.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  I am surprised that the Chinese government so openly admits to behavior much of the rest of the world finds horrifying. I was also commenting on how people deny the camps exist even when the Chinese themselves admit they exist.
  - Paradigma11 6y ago
    The chinese government did deny most of the camps for a long time and only after repeatedly confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary changed their tune to widespread (re)education camps.
  - unityByFreedom 6y ago
    > I am surprised that the Chinese government so openly admits to behavior much of the rest of the world finds horrifying. They don't admit it, they whitewash atrocities by saying the camps are for "re-education".
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      Which, if you look at the history of "re-education", is still horrifying.
      - unityByFreedom 6y ago
        Anyone sold by the "re-education" line is not looking at the history.
Koiwai 6y ago
Tell me why "re-education" is sinister again? Uyghur economy has been relying on agriculture for centuries, and suffered from extreme poverty, they need education to adapt for this fast evolving world, how hard and far-fetched is that to understand?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisavl 6y ago
  It is sinister because re-education camp is a euphemism for concentration camp.
  - Koiwai 6y ago
    This is like kindergarten arguments. You: You have concentration camp! you're evil! China: No we have re-education camp. You: Ha, busted, you admit the camp existed, and re-education camp is concentration camp. I'm out.
- cannabis_sam 6y ago
  Why do you ask this question? Usually, internment camps are bad. Meanwhile, there is true testimony. Also, why are Uyghurs singled out? Obviously this isn’t about poverty.
  - Koiwai 6y ago
    You say true testimony, I say single sided story. Uyghur separatists contributed too. BTW, years ago western media liked Tibet separatists AKA Dalai Lama, now they found a new pet.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  It's probably that whole "dumb" humanistic concept of choosing your own path in life rather than the government choosing it for you.
  - 6y ago

naebother 6y ago

Even if it is western propaganda, doesn't mean it's false. Just like any Chinese/Russian/etc propaganda might highlight the abuses of the US state. As individuals, regardless of which country we happen to live in, we shouldn't immediately dismiss any country's propaganda (including our own) just because it's propaganda. Does each side have an incentive to exaggerate or lie about the other? Of course! But if abuses are really happening the opposing side would be dumb not to propagandize it.

stjohnswarts 6y ago
Even if it's 1/10th the scale people are saying it is indeed still quite horrifying.

silexia 6y ago

What can actually be done against a dictator like Xi Jinping who has absolute power besides using military force? He doesn't care at all about the bad reputation or sanctions or anything else like that.

fsflover 6y ago
> He doesn't care at all about the bad reputation or sanctions Depends on which sanctions. Imagine everyone would stop producing electronics in China...