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You are confusing a whole lot of concepts here, and at times it seems you are arguing against yourself(?). First you argue against great concentrations of capi
by tovej 6y ago
You are confusing a whole lot of concepts here, and at times it seems you are arguing against yourself(?).
First you argue against great concentrations of capital also being great concentrations of power, in this "yes, but no" sentence:
>Money is a form of power, it is not equivalent to power.
This sentence seems to mean absolutely nothing. "not equivalent to power" is some sort of vague semantic argument about what power "is", that is not interesting to the discussion.
Wealth _is_ power in the sense that you can use money to affect change in the world. Wealth is the simplest and most flexible form of power, because it can be directed at anyone or any organization, and transformed into other forms of power. And it even grows by itself!
You then talk about the market cap of Amazon. Why?
The market cap, while also representing a sum of money, is not really relevant to the discussion.
You even seem to realize this yourself, but you do not really explain the reason for bringing it up.
Are you trying to say that competition exists and therefore everything is good?
That would be fine if it weren't for the fact that the companies you mentioned do not compete in the same markets.
They share some markets, e.g. AWS vs GCP, but you offer no evidence that this market is healthy.
Competition is key if you want a healthy market, as is aligning corporate goals with societal ones. You could even argue that competition for customer business is the main mechanism for achieving alignment.
If you allow any one business to get too much power, competition will weaken.
Excessive power can come in the form of excessive capital concentration. It can also come in the form of other bargaining chips that come with excessive capital concentration, such as: control over resources used by direct competitors in a market, e.g. the marketplace itself; the ability to create jobs, politicians love jobs; the ability to invade a new market by subsidizing a new department with capital from elsewhere in the organization; or even an information asymmetry created by a huge data collection operation.
Amazon exhibits all these forms of power and more.
Some of the other companies you mentioned exhibit these as well.
It would be in the interest of society to break up monopolies and other concentrations of power that are actively impeding competition in the way that Amazon is.
These ideas aren't new, developed nations typically create institutions to maintain healthy competition.
In the US, the federal trade comission and the DOJ are tasked with keeping competition healthy by enforcing antitrust law.
They used to be a lot more active than they are now, e.g. when they broke up Bell. I wonder what has made them slip...
- SllX 6y agoPower takes differing and subtle forms: political, electoral, military, obligation, legal, sexual and official (as in the power practiced by an office holder). Monetary power is precisely one type of power, it is powerful, but is not power’s only form. Everyone has a price, except when they don’t. Is a billion dollars enough to make up for the loss of your son? What about a trillion? Only if the value you placed in him could only be measured in money. > You then talk about the market cap of Amazon. Why? The market cap, while also representing a sum of money, is not really relevant to the discussion. You even seem to realize this yourself, but you do not really explain the reason for bringing it up. You’ve lost the thread. Let me help: ============ >>> I still remember when Amazon was only selling Books. People laughed, Media Laughed, and I guess most of us laughed. >>>Amazon is now a ~$1.6 Trillion Dollar Company. What an era. >> For comparison, using national total wealth, that makes Amazon worth more than Saudia Arabia, Denmark, Portugal, or New Zealand. >> It's $280.5 billion in revenue in 2019 put it above the GDP of Romania, Peru, Ukraine, etc. >> Corporations should never be allowed to get this large. > Make your case instead of dropping your groupthink everywhere. Why? And: What is the maximum size a corporation should be allowed to grow? Who gives that permission now? =================== > Amazon exhibits all these forms of power and more. Some of the other companies you mentioned exhibit these as well. It would be in the interest of society to break up monopolies and other concentrations of power that are actively impeding competition in the way that Amazon is. Sure, they exhibit power, they use their power, but is it actually too much power? We can use any measure you like that isn’t market cap, now that we’ve re-established the thread and where that came in. Pick your measurements, and demonstrate how they show that Amazon is too powerful, not merely powerful. > These ideas aren't new, developed nations typically create institutions to maintain healthy competition. As a general rule, although not a hard rule, I don’t have nice things to say about the laws of other nations. Your task is much easier leaving them out of it.