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Seems like a reasonable deal for a very savvy person, but most people who would use the service probably need more help with understanding product and creating

by aneth 15y ago

Seems like a reasonable deal for a very savvy person, but most people who would use the service probably need more help with understanding product and creating wireframes than with development. I can see lots of wannabe entrepreneurs coming in with poorly thought through wireframes of a few pages, lacking understanding of the interactions implicit in the wireframes - pop-ups, hidden pages, data model, authentication, user acquisition, etc. . In my 5+ years of developing for these types of people, they need far more than someone who will "build your prototype." Generally they need guidance in knowing what sorts of decisions need to made, and then in making those decisions. I'm all for string to provide a turnkey prototype development service, however I would fear most ideas and wireframes will be doomed from the start without push back for a well thought through MVP, which is likely not part of this service. That could lead to disappointment, over-reaching, and the unreasonable expectation of multiple iterations.

rcavezza 15y ago
Great points aneth - I'm the guy that created ibuildmvps.com - I end up telling 90%+ of inquiries to do customer development and give them some hints. Not many projects came from ibuildmvps, but it's been fun helping fellow entrepreneurs think through their hypotheses.
ibdknox 15y ago
I don't disagree and my experience has actually been similar as I worked with customers previously. My hope is that there might be those people already out there who are far enough along to be ready for the "build me a prototype" phase. I have, however, considered adding the option of a two week "let's figure your idea out" thing. In the end, maybe that's the way to go...
jurjenh 15y ago
Seems like an opportunity for someone else to step in and sell "I will help you make your prototype for ($5000+$Fee)" where the $Fee covers the initial fleshing out of the design. Of course, this in itself is quite a black art, so I'm not quite willing to step forward for that part myself...
- drewcrawford 15y ago
  The problem is, speaking from my experience as a freelancer, that if these sorts of people (individuals) haven't made a full spec by the time they've found you, it means they don't understand the need for one.
  - jurjenh 15y ago
    But that's what I mean with the fleshing out of the concept... It would mean closely working with the client to define their idea and develop detailed specs, then passing these on once the client is pretty happy with the specs/wireframes or whatever has been used. I can see rapid sketchboards / wireframe mock-ups working quite well for developing the specs wit the client, and then to get a more functional prototype you'd pass this on to Chris. Your $Fee should cover this time + some profit, as this is a service you'd provide for both Chris and the client.
    - drewcrawford 15y ago
      Of course I agree with you that what you're saying is what you _should_ do. But will you be able to convince the potential client to pay for that? Not on your life. Either they already know they need a spec, in which case they're not searching for a prototyper, or they "know" they don't need one. I mean, I suppose you could raise your fee to $7k or whatever to cover the cost to spec it out, and say "prototypes for $7k". But speccing out an arbitrary project is just so vague and has so many dependencies on the client. Will they answer your design questions in an hour? In a day? In a month? How are you going to juggle all the client's delays and that? And by the time you've thought through all that, you're no longer a turnkey prototype delivery service, but more of a traditional design/development firm. Nothing wrong with that of course, just not what the OP had in mind.
ultrasaurus 15y ago
Agreed, this is something where you are by definition marketing to people who've never done this before. But it seems to work for some teams [1]. [1] http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/20/48-hour-apps-will-build-your-project-in-one-weekend-for-10000/ http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/20/48-hour-apps-will-build-y...

by aneth 15y ago

rcavezza 15y ago

Great points aneth - I'm the guy that created ibuildmvps.com - I end up telling 90%+ of inquiries to do customer development and give them some hints. Not many projects came from ibuildmvps, but it's been fun helping fellow entrepreneurs think through their hypotheses.

ibdknox 15y ago

I don't disagree and my experience has actually been similar as I worked with customers previously. My hope is that there might be those people already out there who are far enough along to be ready for the "build me a prototype" phase. I have, however, considered adding the option of a two week "let's figure your idea out" thing. In the end, maybe that's the way to go...

jurjenh 15y ago

Seems like an opportunity for someone else to step in and sell "I will help you make your prototype for ($5000+$Fee)" where the $Fee covers the initial fleshing out of the design. Of course, this in itself is quite a black art, so I'm not quite willing to step forward for that part myself...

drewcrawford 15y ago
The problem is, speaking from my experience as a freelancer, that if these sorts of people (individuals) haven't made a full spec by the time they've found you, it means they don't understand the need for one.
- jurjenh 15y ago
  But that's what I mean with the fleshing out of the concept... It would mean closely working with the client to define their idea and develop detailed specs, then passing these on once the client is pretty happy with the specs/wireframes or whatever has been used. I can see rapid sketchboards / wireframe mock-ups working quite well for developing the specs wit the client, and then to get a more functional prototype you'd pass this on to Chris. Your $Fee should cover this time + some profit, as this is a service you'd provide for both Chris and the client.
  - drewcrawford 15y ago
    Of course I agree with you that what you're saying is what you _should_ do. But will you be able to convince the potential client to pay for that? Not on your life. Either they already know they need a spec, in which case they're not searching for a prototyper, or they "know" they don't need one. I mean, I suppose you could raise your fee to $7k or whatever to cover the cost to spec it out, and say "prototypes for $7k". But speccing out an arbitrary project is just so vague and has so many dependencies on the client. Will they answer your design questions in an hour? In a day? In a month? How are you going to juggle all the client's delays and that? And by the time you've thought through all that, you're no longer a turnkey prototype delivery service, but more of a traditional design/development firm. Nothing wrong with that of course, just not what the OP had in mind.

ultrasaurus 15y ago

Agreed, this is something where you are by definition marketing to people who've never done this before. But it seems to work for some teams [1]. [1] http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/20/48-hour-apps-will-build-your-project-in-one-weekend-for-10000/ http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/20/48-hour-apps-will-build-y...