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> it's basically impossible to do so. Well, not true. I built whole company that does exactly this. It's disappointing that YouTube is used as the standard of

by doh 6y ago

> it's basically impossible to do so. Well, not true. I built whole company that does exactly this. It's disappointing that YouTube is used as the standard of what technology can do and how these systems can work. We built system with the creator as a first class citizen. This means they are able to claim exceptions (as defined by law) before any action is taken. They are also able to utilize outside arbiters (WIPO, ...) free of charge to make independent decisions when there is an issue. This are just few highlights. But the reality is that just because YouTube built shitty system doesn't mean the whole Internet has to copy it.

meibo 6y ago
It's nice that there's ways to make this friendlier for creators, but wouldn't most bigger services rather block and build a cheap system in-house than rely on a SaaS/b2b product, if you don't give it away for free or price very competitively? Are they actually open to implement better systems? Hope it's alright to ask this, it's obviously a very important thing that will be coming up for all of us in the future. Good luck with your work!
- doh 6y ago
  > Hope it's alright to ask this Absolutely! We need to be held accountable. > It's nice that there's ways to make this friendlier for creators, but wouldn't most bigger services rather block and build a cheap system in-house than rely on a SaaS/b2b product, if you don't give it away for free or price very competitively? The biggest innovation of our company is not its technology but the business model. We in fact do give it free to all platforms, rightsholders and creators equally. How do we make money? When there is monetization occurring on the platform, we take %. It's literally the same model of VISA, where cards are free (ok, not all of them) but you pay for the transaction. Some platforms will still try to build their own internal system, similarly to YouTube's Content ID. However as it stands right now, they are not complaint with EUCD and even they do become complaint, they are retaining extreme liability. We, on the other hand, created a setup where we are able to take this liability from the hands of the platforms while providing best service possible. We also aligned our incentives with the success of everyone involved. If rightsholders over block, we don't get paid. If platforms can't attract creators because the system is too intrusive, we don't get paid. If creators don't benefit from our system, we don't get paid. We intentionally built this way. We made it free to allow widespread adoption. We can scale much further than CID (currently can process 1,100 hours of content a second, or 66,000 hours a minute; while guaranteeing 5 second response time with full license being issued) but we also spent last two years working with civic societies, copyright scholars and others to help us build balance system with processes that don't favor one side over the other. We have still long way to go, but I believe we are on a good path.
  - jfrunyon 6y ago
    "We give it free!" "... for a percentage of their revenue"
    - doh 6y ago
      For percentage of LICENSED revenue. So if platform makes no money from the content that is being used, or they use public domain, royalty free, creative commons content or content is blocked, then it's free. The whole point is that we can offer this system exactly because we get to share the upside with the platform, rightsholders and creators.
      - jfrunyon 6y ago
        "You have to pay us in some cases" is not the same as "free", no matter how you try to weasel it.
        doh 6y ago
        Good one.
  - pdkl95 6y ago
    > We also aligned our incentives with the success of everyone involved. Great! In the interest of preserving that alignment into the future, it might be helpful to lock in important aspects of the business model by limiting your future decisions with a Ulysses pact[1]. Cory Doctorow gave a tall[2] about using Ulysses pacts in the tech industry: >> It's not that you don't want to lose weight when you raid your Oreo stash in the middle of the night. It's just that the net present value of tomorrow's weight loss is hyperbolically discounted in favor of the carbohydrate rush of tonight's Oreos. If you're serious about not eating a bag of Oreos your best bet is to not have a bag of Oreos to eat. Not because you're weak willed. Because you're a grown up. And once you become a grown up, you start to understand that there will be tired and desperate moments in your future and the most strong-willed thing you can do is use the willpower that you have now when you're strong, at your best moment, to be the best that you can be later when you're at your weakest moment. >> The answer to not getting pressure from your bosses, your stakeholders, your investors or your members, to do the wrong thing later, when times are hard, is to take options off the table right now. Designing for durability and failure safety is still important when designing business models.
judge2020 6y ago
Do you plan to offer wide access to peertube instances once your product is GA, or will it be up to maintainers to pay for and integrate the platform into their upload pipeline? Your system sounds like it would immediately solve the problem of compliance with this law for the PT instances that are afraid that they might be required to block access from the EU.
- doh 6y ago
  I did answer some of this already here [0] but in short, yes. We are offering our systems free of charge to all types of platforms including one like peertube. Anyone can implement our SDK and built at the top of it. We operate very similarly to Stripe where the system is free and we live off of the transactions. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26009027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26009027

by doh 6y ago

meibo 6y ago

It's nice that there's ways to make this friendlier for creators, but wouldn't most bigger services rather block and build a cheap system in-house than rely on a SaaS/b2b product, if you don't give it away for free or price very competitively? Are they actually open to implement better systems? Hope it's alright to ask this, it's obviously a very important thing that will be coming up for all of us in the future. Good luck with your work!

doh 6y ago
> Hope it's alright to ask this Absolutely! We need to be held accountable. > It's nice that there's ways to make this friendlier for creators, but wouldn't most bigger services rather block and build a cheap system in-house than rely on a SaaS/b2b product, if you don't give it away for free or price very competitively? The biggest innovation of our company is not its technology but the business model. We in fact do give it free to all platforms, rightsholders and creators equally. How do we make money? When there is monetization occurring on the platform, we take %. It's literally the same model of VISA, where cards are free (ok, not all of them) but you pay for the transaction. Some platforms will still try to build their own internal system, similarly to YouTube's Content ID. However as it stands right now, they are not complaint with EUCD and even they do become complaint, they are retaining extreme liability. We, on the other hand, created a setup where we are able to take this liability from the hands of the platforms while providing best service possible. We also aligned our incentives with the success of everyone involved. If rightsholders over block, we don't get paid. If platforms can't attract creators because the system is too intrusive, we don't get paid. If creators don't benefit from our system, we don't get paid. We intentionally built this way. We made it free to allow widespread adoption. We can scale much further than CID (currently can process 1,100 hours of content a second, or 66,000 hours a minute; while guaranteeing 5 second response time with full license being issued) but we also spent last two years working with civic societies, copyright scholars and others to help us build balance system with processes that don't favor one side over the other. We have still long way to go, but I believe we are on a good path.
- jfrunyon 6y ago
  "We give it free!" "... for a percentage of their revenue"
  - doh 6y ago
    For percentage of LICENSED revenue. So if platform makes no money from the content that is being used, or they use public domain, royalty free, creative commons content or content is blocked, then it's free. The whole point is that we can offer this system exactly because we get to share the upside with the platform, rightsholders and creators.
    - jfrunyon 6y ago
      "You have to pay us in some cases" is not the same as "free", no matter how you try to weasel it.
      - doh 6y ago
        Good one.
- pdkl95 6y ago
  > We also aligned our incentives with the success of everyone involved. Great! In the interest of preserving that alignment into the future, it might be helpful to lock in important aspects of the business model by limiting your future decisions with a Ulysses pact[1]. Cory Doctorow gave a tall[2] about using Ulysses pacts in the tech industry: >> It's not that you don't want to lose weight when you raid your Oreo stash in the middle of the night. It's just that the net present value of tomorrow's weight loss is hyperbolically discounted in favor of the carbohydrate rush of tonight's Oreos. If you're serious about not eating a bag of Oreos your best bet is to not have a bag of Oreos to eat. Not because you're weak willed. Because you're a grown up. And once you become a grown up, you start to understand that there will be tired and desperate moments in your future and the most strong-willed thing you can do is use the willpower that you have now when you're strong, at your best moment, to be the best that you can be later when you're at your weakest moment. >> The answer to not getting pressure from your bosses, your stakeholders, your investors or your members, to do the wrong thing later, when times are hard, is to take options off the table right now. Designing for durability and failure safety is still important when designing business models.

judge2020 6y ago

Do you plan to offer wide access to peertube instances once your product is GA, or will it be up to maintainers to pay for and integrate the platform into their upload pipeline? Your system sounds like it would immediately solve the problem of compliance with this law for the PT instances that are afraid that they might be required to block access from the EU.

doh 6y ago
I did answer some of this already here [0] but in short, yes. We are offering our systems free of charge to all types of platforms including one like peertube. Anyone can implement our SDK and built at the top of it. We operate very similarly to Stripe where the system is free and we live off of the transactions. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26009027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26009027