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I am 100% convinced that if Twitter expanded their verified account program then these types of attacks would be rendered obsolete very quickly. It just doesn'

I am 100% convinced that if Twitter expanded their verified account program then these types of attacks would be rendered obsolete very quickly. It just doesn't make sense that there is no way for an average real person to get verified and display an instant signal that differentiates them from a fake bot. It's absurd and it causes real harm.

bequanna 6y ago
Why stop at Twitter? I would expect some service to exist (any maybe it currently does) that can easily verify whether or not any account is driven by an actual human.
- netsharc 6y ago
  But forced verification = people complaining about the lack of anonimity (which I would support too). Whistleblowing would be more restricted (or they could trust Twitter to keep their identity a secret, until a Twitter employee leaks their info for some money, e.g. Saudi money: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/how-saudi-arabia-infiltrated-twitter https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/how-saud... )
  - mrtesthah 6y ago
    Why not make it pseudonymous, and then federate identity verification by having neutral third-parties attest to who you are?
    - tatersolid 6y ago
      Because approximately zero non-crypto-geek humans would participate, as the mechanism is inscrutable and of dubious value. The complete failure of the PGP “web of trust” is a precedent.
jjcon 6y ago
If verification is easy and accessible, what’s stopping a real person from getting a simple verification and then loaning out their account for bot actions (for a price)?
- binarymax 6y ago
  When you get caught you get booted off the platform.
  - slater 6y ago
    As we can see with all those Twitter accounts that got bought for their usernames, which is AFAIK not allowed, but here we are, hey? /scnr
  - ardy42 6y ago
    >> If verification is easy and accessible, what’s stopping a real person from getting a simple verification and then loaning out their account for bot actions (for a price)? > When you get caught you get booted off the platform. Which may not actually be a problem for most people. The thing that's stopping me from selling my Twitter account to a disinformation network is not my fear of losing access to Twitter, it's that I care about the problem of disinformation and don't want to see myself in the news for something like that. I'm sure there are thousands of people who'd sell a simply-verified Twitter account, and they probably wouldn't even demand that much. People are already spending hours a day trying to sell their nudes, and still only making a few hundred dollars total (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/onlyfans-pandemic-users.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/onlyfans-pandemi...).
    - seniorivn 6y ago
      if verified accounts would be guaranteed to be able to post anything and hold accountable in court(not by twitter) that would be a completely different situation. in this case, an average user selling verified account would risk legal and financial consequences. It's unlikely spammers and other bots would be able to afford buying such accounts in mass. And additionally verified accounts would be out of touch for any censorship.
bostonsre 6y ago
I think they would make less money if they stopped receiving ad dollars due to fake views.
- binarymax 6y ago
  Of course. Which is why they don’t do it :)
- dan-robertson 6y ago
  Maybe they could charge people to become verified?
dd36 6y ago
We debated doing this as an outside service on any platform then creating filters but it’s dangerous as a business because it’s so trivial for Twitter to decide to do it. It is remarkable they haven’t done it. Facebook too.
_trampeltier 6y ago
Online verification .. what private data do you wanna know. With the actual rate and size of personal data leaks, we are close to a point, where it is pointless to do any online verification.
reaperducer 6y ago
It just doesn't make sense that there is no way for an average real person to get verified and display an instant signal that differentiates them from a fake bot It's the old tech cliché: "Because it doesn't scale." Which is just an excuse for "We're lazy and don't want to spend money on things that don't directly benefit our cafeteria and office toys." After quitting Facebook a couple of years ago, I tried to log in to my Facebook account back in December to say Merry Christmas to some people, but I am locked out. Facebook asked me to send in a government photo ID, which I did. Nothing has happened since. Responsibility doesn't scale. Accountability doesn't scale. Service doesn't scale. Doing the right thing doesn't scale. On the plus side, I'm still not using Facebook.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  Twitter doesn't really make enormous profits... On a side note I read "After quitting Facebook a couple of years ago, I tried to log in..." as meaning that you quit _working_ at Facebook and they still couldn't verify who you were, which is a little more humorous, but probably not what you meant.
- ajcp 6y ago
  >After quitting Facebook a couple of years ago I read that as: After quitting Facebook as an employee a couple of years ago Which made this: > I tried to log in to my Facebook account back in December to say Merry Christmas to some people, but I am locked out. Facebook asked me to send in a government photo ID, which I did. Nothing has happened since. Sound so very petty and cold blooded. You know, the Facebook we all know and love ;)
alextheparrot 6y ago
Three days ago there was a hacked verified account that had done a name change posing as one of the Winklevoss twins trying to get people to send BTC to a random address. That is to say trust is a reoccurring cost and not as trivial as “Has checkmark” at T=0.
Krasnol 6y ago
If we should have learned something from Facebook than that using a real name won't stop people from spamming and agitating.
jimmydorry 6y ago
Twitter has conflated their verification process with "we support what these people are saying". Since 2016, there has been a growing number of people "de-checked". Twitter could certainly make a new check system, but it would likely be (ab)used the sameway, eventually.
ggggggt 6y ago
Im not going to verify my identity on social media for fear or being canceled.

bequanna 6y ago

Why stop at Twitter? I would expect some service to exist (any maybe it currently does) that can easily verify whether or not any account is driven by an actual human.

netsharc 6y ago
But forced verification = people complaining about the lack of anonimity (which I would support too). Whistleblowing would be more restricted (or they could trust Twitter to keep their identity a secret, until a Twitter employee leaks their info for some money, e.g. Saudi money: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/how-saudi-arabia-infiltrated-twitter https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/how-saud... )
- mrtesthah 6y ago
  Why not make it pseudonymous, and then federate identity verification by having neutral third-parties attest to who you are?
  - tatersolid 6y ago
    Because approximately zero non-crypto-geek humans would participate, as the mechanism is inscrutable and of dubious value. The complete failure of the PGP “web of trust” is a precedent.

jjcon 6y ago

If verification is easy and accessible, what’s stopping a real person from getting a simple verification and then loaning out their account for bot actions (for a price)?

binarymax 6y ago
When you get caught you get booted off the platform.
- slater 6y ago
  As we can see with all those Twitter accounts that got bought for their usernames, which is AFAIK not allowed, but here we are, hey? /scnr
- ardy42 6y ago
  >> If verification is easy and accessible, what’s stopping a real person from getting a simple verification and then loaning out their account for bot actions (for a price)? > When you get caught you get booted off the platform. Which may not actually be a problem for most people. The thing that's stopping me from selling my Twitter account to a disinformation network is not my fear of losing access to Twitter, it's that I care about the problem of disinformation and don't want to see myself in the news for something like that. I'm sure there are thousands of people who'd sell a simply-verified Twitter account, and they probably wouldn't even demand that much. People are already spending hours a day trying to sell their nudes, and still only making a few hundred dollars total (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/onlyfans-pandemic-users.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/onlyfans-pandemi...).
  - seniorivn 6y ago
    if verified accounts would be guaranteed to be able to post anything and hold accountable in court(not by twitter) that would be a completely different situation. in this case, an average user selling verified account would risk legal and financial consequences. It's unlikely spammers and other bots would be able to afford buying such accounts in mass. And additionally verified accounts would be out of touch for any censorship.

bostonsre 6y ago

I think they would make less money if they stopped receiving ad dollars due to fake views.

binarymax 6y ago
Of course. Which is why they don’t do it :)
dan-robertson 6y ago
Maybe they could charge people to become verified?

dd36 6y ago

We debated doing this as an outside service on any platform then creating filters but it’s dangerous as a business because it’s so trivial for Twitter to decide to do it. It is remarkable they haven’t done it. Facebook too.

_trampeltier 6y ago

Online verification .. what private data do you wanna know. With the actual rate and size of personal data leaks, we are close to a point, where it is pointless to do any online verification.

reaperducer 6y ago

It just doesn't make sense that there is no way for an average real person to get verified and display an instant signal that differentiates them from a fake bot It's the old tech cliché: "Because it doesn't scale." Which is just an excuse for "We're lazy and don't want to spend money on things that don't directly benefit our cafeteria and office toys." After quitting Facebook a couple of years ago, I tried to log in to my Facebook account back in December to say Merry Christmas to some people, but I am locked out. Facebook asked me to send in a government photo ID, which I did. Nothing has happened since. Responsibility doesn't scale. Accountability doesn't scale. Service doesn't scale. Doing the right thing doesn't scale. On the plus side, I'm still not using Facebook.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
Twitter doesn't really make enormous profits... On a side note I read "After quitting Facebook a couple of years ago, I tried to log in..." as meaning that you quit _working_ at Facebook and they still couldn't verify who you were, which is a little more humorous, but probably not what you meant.
ajcp 6y ago
>After quitting Facebook a couple of years ago I read that as: After quitting Facebook as an employee a couple of years ago Which made this: > I tried to log in to my Facebook account back in December to say Merry Christmas to some people, but I am locked out. Facebook asked me to send in a government photo ID, which I did. Nothing has happened since. Sound so very petty and cold blooded. You know, the Facebook we all know and love ;)

alextheparrot 6y ago

Three days ago there was a hacked verified account that had done a name change posing as one of the Winklevoss twins trying to get people to send BTC to a random address. That is to say trust is a reoccurring cost and not as trivial as “Has checkmark” at T=0.

Krasnol 6y ago

If we should have learned something from Facebook than that using a real name won't stop people from spamming and agitating.

jimmydorry 6y ago

Twitter has conflated their verification process with "we support what these people are saying". Since 2016, there has been a growing number of people "de-checked". Twitter could certainly make a new check system, but it would likely be (ab)used the sameway, eventually.

ggggggt 6y ago

Im not going to verify my identity on social media for fear or being canceled.