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> "well you don't need that anyway!" Something similar used to frustrate me no end when asking the Python community for help trying to solve a problem. Regula

> "well you don't need that anyway!" Something similar used to frustrate me no end when asking the Python community for help trying to solve a problem. Regularly someone would comment, "Why would you want to do that?". I wouldn't be asking if I didn't have a need to do it! It's bizarre that some people can't see beyond the end of their own nose and imagine different use cases to their own.

Enginerrrd 6y ago
To be fair, there's a lot of people asking for help on X-Y problems in the programming world, especially on python, and often the fastest way to sort out someone's issue is to walk it back to the original problem X they were trying to solve.
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  Yeah, but if you don't have an XY problem, you have to spend a lot of your question pre-defending the "it's not an XY problem" stance and lordy ... is that frustrating. There's a lot of people out there who are happy to tell you that you have an XY problem, but when you explain why it is not, ... crickets.
- regularfry 6y ago
  There's all the difference in the world between asking "why do you want to do that?" and "why would you want to do that?"
js2 6y ago
Often asking "why" is to tease out XY problems. It's not that the experts can't see past the end of their own nose, but rather that they have the experience to recognize questions that indicate the questioner has wandered off into the weeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem
Veen 6y ago
As an amateur developer, I've often found that "Why would you want to do that?" is followed by an explanation of a much better way that I hadn't even thought of. Sometimes it's asshole-behaviour, but it's often people sharing the benefit of their experience; my thinking has gone awry at some point several steps back and they want to make life easier for me.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > As an amateur developer, I've often found that "Why would you want to do that?" is followed by an explanation of a much better way that I hadn't even thought of. Unfortunately in my experience it is often followed by an explanation of why what I'm trying to do isn't what I should want to do, as though I am not aware of my own goals and constraints.
  - folkrav 6y ago
    You'd probably get the same question from a plumber if you asked him how to plug a pipe in a non-intuitive way. He has no way to know your pipes are laid out in a strange way, and the only spot you have left to add said junction without redoing your plumbing is back there - unless you tell him. Sure, some people are assholes, but that's just people. Nobody's in your mind, they can't guess your requirements, thought process and level of experience. In my experience, more often than not, asking the question "why would you want to do that?" gets you a bad reason. "I did X this way because Y. I need Z." would filter the legitimate questioning out. From there, the others are just assholes, and those are everywhere.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      > You'd probably get the same question from a plumber if you asked him how to plug a pipe in a non-intuitive way. He has no way to know your pipes are laid out in a strange way, and the only spot you have left to add said junction without redoing your plumbing is back there - unless you tell him. Sure, but if I told a plumber they'd understand and help me find a solution to my problem. That isn't what happens on StackOverflow, instead they try to convince you that you have to change your problem to fit the solutions they're familiar with.
oldmanhorton 6y ago
But, it's also a reasonable response to prevent bloat. Not asking that question is how anything with backwards compatibility guarantees, especially languages, get too complex over time. Asking the question doesn't mean you've hit a wall; the maintainers may just be going through a mental checklist to try to keep this from being a major pain for them in 10 years.
roel_v 6y ago
The people replying like that are in the barely-not-novice-anymore category themselves, and their mental model of the world is that everybody is just fumbling around doing everything wrong like they were doing themselves a short time ago. It's true that when you are just past the point where you're not totally useless any more, there is a point where you think you're God's gift to the world (not judging - I have felt like this many times over, it goes away after the next big hurdle you run into...), and it's impossible at that stage to imagine the type of abstract thinking you get after many more years of experience. But yeah - the 'XY problem!' crowd (along with the 'But The Rules!' crowd) has also totally destroyed Stack Overflow.
scoutt 6y ago
I can deal with a "Why would you want to do that?". What I cannot deal with is "It's not standard practice" kind-of answers.

Enginerrrd 6y ago

To be fair, there's a lot of people asking for help on X-Y problems in the programming world, especially on python, and often the fastest way to sort out someone's issue is to walk it back to the original problem X they were trying to solve.

at_a_remove 6y ago
Yeah, but if you don't have an XY problem, you have to spend a lot of your question pre-defending the "it's not an XY problem" stance and lordy ... is that frustrating. There's a lot of people out there who are happy to tell you that you have an XY problem, but when you explain why it is not, ... crickets.
regularfry 6y ago
There's all the difference in the world between asking "why do you want to do that?" and "why would you want to do that?"

js2 6y ago

Often asking "why" is to tease out XY problems. It's not that the experts can't see past the end of their own nose, but rather that they have the experience to recognize questions that indicate the questioner has wandered off into the weeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

Veen 6y ago

As an amateur developer, I've often found that "Why would you want to do that?" is followed by an explanation of a much better way that I hadn't even thought of. Sometimes it's asshole-behaviour, but it's often people sharing the benefit of their experience; my thinking has gone awry at some point several steps back and they want to make life easier for me.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> As an amateur developer, I've often found that "Why would you want to do that?" is followed by an explanation of a much better way that I hadn't even thought of. Unfortunately in my experience it is often followed by an explanation of why what I'm trying to do isn't what I should want to do, as though I am not aware of my own goals and constraints.
- folkrav 6y ago
  You'd probably get the same question from a plumber if you asked him how to plug a pipe in a non-intuitive way. He has no way to know your pipes are laid out in a strange way, and the only spot you have left to add said junction without redoing your plumbing is back there - unless you tell him. Sure, some people are assholes, but that's just people. Nobody's in your mind, they can't guess your requirements, thought process and level of experience. In my experience, more often than not, asking the question "why would you want to do that?" gets you a bad reason. "I did X this way because Y. I need Z." would filter the legitimate questioning out. From there, the others are just assholes, and those are everywhere.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > You'd probably get the same question from a plumber if you asked him how to plug a pipe in a non-intuitive way. He has no way to know your pipes are laid out in a strange way, and the only spot you have left to add said junction without redoing your plumbing is back there - unless you tell him. Sure, but if I told a plumber they'd understand and help me find a solution to my problem. That isn't what happens on StackOverflow, instead they try to convince you that you have to change your problem to fit the solutions they're familiar with.

oldmanhorton 6y ago

But, it's also a reasonable response to prevent bloat. Not asking that question is how anything with backwards compatibility guarantees, especially languages, get too complex over time. Asking the question doesn't mean you've hit a wall; the maintainers may just be going through a mental checklist to try to keep this from being a major pain for them in 10 years.

roel_v 6y ago

The people replying like that are in the barely-not-novice-anymore category themselves, and their mental model of the world is that everybody is just fumbling around doing everything wrong like they were doing themselves a short time ago. It's true that when you are just past the point where you're not totally useless any more, there is a point where you think you're God's gift to the world (not judging - I have felt like this many times over, it goes away after the next big hurdle you run into...), and it's impossible at that stage to imagine the type of abstract thinking you get after many more years of experience. But yeah - the 'XY problem!' crowd (along with the 'But The Rules!' crowd) has also totally destroyed Stack Overflow.

scoutt 6y ago

I can deal with a "Why would you want to do that?". What I cannot deal with is "It's not standard practice" kind-of answers.