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René Descartes ruined the perception and healthcare of mental illness. Patients and even a few doctors would be more informed if they understood the symptoms of

René Descartes ruined the perception and healthcare of mental illness. Patients and even a few doctors would be more informed if they understood the symptoms of mental illness occur because of physical changes in the brain. Instead a misinformed belief of a chemical imbalance exists and is assumed as a truth by some physicians & nurses. Society is basically brainwashed into believing everyone has free will. The result is that people with the most capital prosper and I assume the foregoing wouldn't be the case if everyone was a determinist.

solipsism 6y ago
> if they understood the symptoms of mental illness occur because of physical changes in the brain. Instead a misinformed belief of a chemical imbalance exists What's the difference? And how does that difference impact how people are treated by physicians and nurses?
- danaliv 6y ago
  I read “physical changes” as structural changes in neurons and neural connections themselves, as opposed to the (at least popular) thinking that mental illness is down to imbalances in neurotransmitters. There’s at least some research around this related to addiction, namely that overexpression of ΔFosB produces changes to neurons in the reward pathways.
  - solipsism 6y ago
    It sounds like a very naive and simplistic distinction. Neurochemicals and the structure of the neurons themselves are interrelated in very complex ways.
psyc 6y ago
Mentally ill person here. I haven’t heard a mental health professional use the phrase ‘chemical imbalance’ or anything similar in 20 years. It’s my understanding it has been deprecated. It’s mostly repeated by laypeople in ignorance. It’s hard to flush something like that out of the popular lexicon, once established. There’s a lot of maddeningly persistent misinformation about mental health on Internet forums.
- abellerose 6y ago
  Person with gender dysphoria here. I've still heard the phrase in Canada by nurses & staff. Also heard it several years ago when living in USA by doctors & staff. Unsure why you think I was referring to internet forums? I thought those were deprecated since 2009.
  - psyc 6y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=chemical+imbalance+theory https://www.google.com/search?q=chemical+imbalance+theory
    - abellerose 6y ago
      Unsure why you're linking that. Do you not realize by my first comment that I'm describing the theory as nonsense compared to what I wrote? edit: ah thanks for the clarification.
      - psyc 6y ago
        My intent was to support your comment, not contradict it. By reassuring anyone who might read this that the chemical imbalance angle has rightly fallen out of favor.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  The widespread and increasing use of psychotropic drugs says that 'chemical imbalance' still serves as the foundation.
- dboreham 6y ago
  I'm fairly sure I've seen tv drug ads in the past few years use the phrase "chemical imbalance".
  - psyc 6y ago
    They have a clear incentive to exaggerate a) the effectiveness of the drugs, and b) how well they understand how they work. There is an important distinction between knowing how drugs affect brain chemistry, vs knowing how they alleviate symptoms. The latter is still more empirical than theoretical.
SummerlyMars 6y ago
> Society is basically brainwashed into believing everyone has free will. The result is that people with the most capital prosper and I assume the foregoing wouldn't be the case if everyone was a determinist. Why do you assume this? If everyone believed in determinism rather than free will, couldn't those with the most capital (deterministically) say "Well, that's just the way it should be. They can't choose to be different." I'm not inclined to think that will is all that free, but I can't seem to see the connection between that and capitalism.
- Layke1123 6y ago
  They will think its justified, just like the masses will justify taking all the hoarded wealth. Fairly distributing capital and power is the only reasonable solution in a world that is so obviously deterministic.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    Never underestimate the adaptability of rhetoric.
    - Layke1123 6y ago
      While cute, it misses the point. If I say a car is coming, it is then up to the person to decide whether they step into the street or not. This is not a rhetorical argument.
      - wizzwizz4 6y ago
        You say that the world being deterministic somehow makes “we should be nice to each other” an inescapable conclusion… but really, it's just a framing that lets you escape the existing divisive rhetoric. If it became widespread, we'd get new rhetoric.
        Layke1123 6y ago
        Rhetoric doesn't stop a car from running over you no matter how the warning is phrased if you choose to not understand said rhetoric. This is not a rhetorical argument.

solipsism 6y ago

> if they understood the symptoms of mental illness occur because of physical changes in the brain. Instead a misinformed belief of a chemical imbalance exists What's the difference? And how does that difference impact how people are treated by physicians and nurses?

danaliv 6y ago
I read “physical changes” as structural changes in neurons and neural connections themselves, as opposed to the (at least popular) thinking that mental illness is down to imbalances in neurotransmitters. There’s at least some research around this related to addiction, namely that overexpression of ΔFosB produces changes to neurons in the reward pathways.
- solipsism 6y ago
  It sounds like a very naive and simplistic distinction. Neurochemicals and the structure of the neurons themselves are interrelated in very complex ways.

psyc 6y ago

Mentally ill person here. I haven’t heard a mental health professional use the phrase ‘chemical imbalance’ or anything similar in 20 years. It’s my understanding it has been deprecated. It’s mostly repeated by laypeople in ignorance. It’s hard to flush something like that out of the popular lexicon, once established. There’s a lot of maddeningly persistent misinformation about mental health on Internet forums.

abellerose 6y ago
Person with gender dysphoria here. I've still heard the phrase in Canada by nurses & staff. Also heard it several years ago when living in USA by doctors & staff. Unsure why you think I was referring to internet forums? I thought those were deprecated since 2009.
- psyc 6y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=chemical+imbalance+theory https://www.google.com/search?q=chemical+imbalance+theory
  - abellerose 6y ago
    Unsure why you're linking that. Do you not realize by my first comment that I'm describing the theory as nonsense compared to what I wrote? edit: ah thanks for the clarification.
    - psyc 6y ago
      My intent was to support your comment, not contradict it. By reassuring anyone who might read this that the chemical imbalance angle has rightly fallen out of favor.
Gibbon1 6y ago
The widespread and increasing use of psychotropic drugs says that 'chemical imbalance' still serves as the foundation.
dboreham 6y ago
I'm fairly sure I've seen tv drug ads in the past few years use the phrase "chemical imbalance".
- psyc 6y ago
  They have a clear incentive to exaggerate a) the effectiveness of the drugs, and b) how well they understand how they work. There is an important distinction between knowing how drugs affect brain chemistry, vs knowing how they alleviate symptoms. The latter is still more empirical than theoretical.

SummerlyMars 6y ago

> Society is basically brainwashed into believing everyone has free will. The result is that people with the most capital prosper and I assume the foregoing wouldn't be the case if everyone was a determinist. Why do you assume this? If everyone believed in determinism rather than free will, couldn't those with the most capital (deterministically) say "Well, that's just the way it should be. They can't choose to be different." I'm not inclined to think that will is all that free, but I can't seem to see the connection between that and capitalism.

Layke1123 6y ago
They will think its justified, just like the masses will justify taking all the hoarded wealth. Fairly distributing capital and power is the only reasonable solution in a world that is so obviously deterministic.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  Never underestimate the adaptability of rhetoric.
  - Layke1123 6y ago
    While cute, it misses the point. If I say a car is coming, it is then up to the person to decide whether they step into the street or not. This is not a rhetorical argument.
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      You say that the world being deterministic somehow makes “we should be nice to each other” an inescapable conclusion… but really, it's just a framing that lets you escape the existing divisive rhetoric. If it became widespread, we'd get new rhetoric.
      - Layke1123 6y ago
        Rhetoric doesn't stop a car from running over you no matter how the warning is phrased if you choose to not understand said rhetoric. This is not a rhetorical argument.