4 ms·
That's because all three are similar, all three throw away some of the modular unix philosophy and replace it with a system that gives less power to the user.
by Aardwolf 6y ago
That's because all three are similar, all three throw away some of the modular unix philosophy and replace it with a system that gives less power to the user.
- Gualdrapo 6y agoHow so? (genuine question from a desktop user using wayland right now)
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- Aardwolf 6y agoDoes taking a screenshot work for you?
- drdec 6y agoNot the OP, but I'm on Fedora 33, using Gnome with Wayland (the default) and I have no issues taking screenshots (using PrtScn or Ctl-PrtScn or Shift-Ctl-PrtScn)
- aboyandhisdog 6y agoBeen rocking wayland for over a year now, screenshots have always worked for me.
- mendelmaleh 6y agoYes? https://github.com/emersion/grim https://github.com/emersion/grim
- morsch 6y agoI started using Wayland a couple of days ago and screenshots in Gnome work the same way as they do on my X11 desktop. In a word, yes.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y agoI may be mistaken, but PulseAudio doesn't seem to fit that definition at all. Pulse allows for a lot more functionality and modularity than ALSA, the problem people had with it was that it was just really really buggy when it was pushed as the default in a lot of distros.
- mondoshawan 6y agoYour use of "was" here is sadly, incorrect. PA is still horrifically broken on simple PC desktop systems I use (with integrated AC97 audio, btw) and on custom embedded systems I have integrated new sound chips into. I regularly have to open pavucontrol to fix basic things like "where output audio streams are routed to", fight with audio frequency rates, etc. On new embedded designs, PA is often the bane of my existance because of the insane heuristics it runs to figure out audio policies and mixer/routing behaviors. Even the major desktop environments have trouble trying to integrate with the blasted thing. PA is still hot garbage, straight from upstream source.
- Aardwolf 6y agoWas or is? Is, afaik, pulseaudio causes movie players to freeze when using USB audio, I have to use a bluetooth transmitter with 3.5mm jack instead to completely isolate pulseaudio from my headphones so that it doesn't wreak such unwanted havoc
- hacknat 6y agoI agree that all three are aggressively Linux specific, but let's be real. From a market share perspective Unix is dead. Linux itself threw the Unix philosophy out the window some time ago.
- Aardwolf 6y agoIt's what I like and use it for though, so please allow me to dislike those systems. If I wanted to use an OS that decides things for me, there are enough other choices.
- kevincox 6y agoSorry which modular unix philosophy is Wayland replacing? X wasn't modular except by the most generous definitions. X is a weird server that does way too many things and the window manager where the interesting logic was. These days the building blocks have been broken out allowing much more flexibility. If you think that the window manager was modular component you can basically pretend that wlroots is X and the compositor is the window manager. It is just as modular with that logic except more efficient and capable.
- Aardwolf 6y agoBeing able to write bash scripts to automate mouse and keyboard is modular Being able to dump screenshots or process them in any other way, also again with bash scripts, is very modular Being able to debug parameters of X windows, etc...
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- mondoshawan 6y agoXorg didnt define policy, which is why things like window management was offloaded to the window manager process. Look and feel was also not part of the policy of Xorg, and was defined by the widget sets, window manager, etc. In the wayland model, these previously modular components that communicated through process boundaries to cobble together those policies that make a desktop are typically subsumed into one process called the compositor. Look and feel is still the domain of the widget set, but window policy is not.
- chousuke 6y agoRight, and nothing prevents you from writing a compositor that talks to an external process to handle window management. It just happens that no-one does it, because it's insane and difficult to make work properly. The compositor's job literally is to juggle the clients' buffers, which includes deciding what gets drawn on the screen and how. There are other processes involved though where the compositor and the client do talk the Wayland protocol via IPC, such that the compositor hands off various responsibilities to external processes. As far as I understand, X11 ended up with the window manager architecture pretty much by accident; initially, window managers didn't even exist.
- account42 6y agoNah, the thing common with them is that they are pushed onto us instead of being provided as an alternative and then left to win out on their own merit.
- tremon 6y agoThat's not true for Wayland I think, Wayland is much closer to the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well: it is a (library implementation of a) local display protocol, and only handles input redirection and display configuration. It uses the kernel for device management, and puts clients fully in control of their own canvas through OpenGL. It doesn't do output configuration, input management, application window drawing, font rendering, or remoting, all of which X did itself (although modern application rarely made use of that part of X). Those things are delegated to the kernel or to application libraries.
- samsari 6y agoThe modular linux philosophy is great, but it is quite obviously not the optimal solution to all problems. Some problems are better solved in a non-modular way.
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