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> So my new approach is “fuck you”. None of the Wayland detractors have a clue. Mmmmkay. That's a pretty broad statement, good luck with that attitude! > I’ve

> So my new approach is “fuck you”. None of the Wayland detractors have a clue. Mmmmkay. That's a pretty broad statement, good luck with that attitude! > I’ve tried appealing to reason and rationally debunking each lie that some Wayland detractor flavor-of-the-week is touting to tow the party line, but it didn’t work. I guess he's referring to this post? https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-debunked.html https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Y_Y 6y ago
I wonder where they're "towing" the party line to? Maybe it was parked in front of a hospital.
turminal 6y ago
> I guess he's referring to this post? https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de... And to numerous comments on HN and elsewhere. The 'wayland sucks' movement is sooo annoying, even to me and I'm just a happy wayland user and haven't spent any of my free time writing those thousands of lines of code.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Aardwolf 6y ago
That post doesn't tackle the issue of being unable to do keyboard and mouse automation
- singron 6y ago
  Have you tried ydotool?
  - zests 6y ago
    There needs to be a better way to discover random stuff like this.
    - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
      What are you hoping for? Someone to drop down and teach you how to do everything on wayland? I have no idea how to do keyboard automation on X11 but that says nothing about X11. This is the problem the post is talking about. Every single thread about wayland is filled with “but it can’t do Y” when it is possible to do Y.
      - Aardwolf 6y ago
        That's because it sounds like Wayland has a security and isolation model that doesn't allow features like this
      - zests 6y ago
        These are evdev based tools, not wayland tools. Personally the community around wayland seems to have some toxicity in it. That is the only thing I really took from the original post.
gspr 6y ago
> That's a pretty broad statement, good luck with that attitude! Luckily, DeVault is an insanely prolific writer of actual code, so there's no need to evaluate his attitude. His code speaks for itself.
- zzz143 6y ago
  Yes, he fancies himself a modern Stallman and spends that reputation on content-free rants like this, that an increasingly dwindling audience understands and cares about (HN notwithstanding, who largely eats up his posts on authorship). Spending your life hacking on Wayland when the world has pretty conclusively assigned capital to headless Linux use cases does speak for itself, yes. Divisive pieces like this make that worse and shrink the TAM of desktop Linux even further, so it’s an oddly self-defeating position to have. I’m not sure comparing detractors of software to people who believe thousands of people died in a false flag operation is defensible commentary in any light nor that this community should be giving it an audience.
  - gspr 6y ago
    Why do you care so much about what someone else decides to spend their time coding on? Man, people criticize the weirdest things sometimes. I for one greatly appreciate a lot of DeVault's work. Do I think he has the softest way of expressing his opinions? No. Do I need him to in order to appreciate the technical merits of his work? No. I'm not looking for a life partner – I'm looking for excellent software.
    - zzz143 6y ago
      I didn’t say I cared. I said it was an undercapitalized endeavor partially due to infighting like this, and that sticking to it speaks for itself in terms of the goals and philosophy of a developer. I might have meant kudos for believing in something the world doesn’t and left it unspoken, for all you know, but your reaction to criticism of Drew DeVault tells me we are not discussing this on equal footing.
      - 6y ago
Deestan 6y ago
Quite a few of these are of the form: "Wayland doesn't X!" "Actually, it's on purpose or X that is not working on Wayland because [reason]." Sure but that doesn't make it work.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Y_Y 6y ago

I wonder where they're "towing" the party line to? Maybe it was parked in front of a hospital.

turminal 6y ago

> I guess he's referring to this post? https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de... And to numerous comments on HN and elsewhere. The 'wayland sucks' movement is sooo annoying, even to me and I'm just a happy wayland user and haven't spent any of my free time writing those thousands of lines of code.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Aardwolf 6y ago

That post doesn't tackle the issue of being unable to do keyboard and mouse automation

singron 6y ago
Have you tried ydotool?
- zests 6y ago
  There needs to be a better way to discover random stuff like this.
  - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
    What are you hoping for? Someone to drop down and teach you how to do everything on wayland? I have no idea how to do keyboard automation on X11 but that says nothing about X11. This is the problem the post is talking about. Every single thread about wayland is filled with “but it can’t do Y” when it is possible to do Y.
    - Aardwolf 6y ago
      That's because it sounds like Wayland has a security and isolation model that doesn't allow features like this
    - zests 6y ago
      These are evdev based tools, not wayland tools. Personally the community around wayland seems to have some toxicity in it. That is the only thing I really took from the original post.

gspr 6y ago

> That's a pretty broad statement, good luck with that attitude! Luckily, DeVault is an insanely prolific writer of actual code, so there's no need to evaluate his attitude. His code speaks for itself.

zzz143 6y ago
Yes, he fancies himself a modern Stallman and spends that reputation on content-free rants like this, that an increasingly dwindling audience understands and cares about (HN notwithstanding, who largely eats up his posts on authorship). Spending your life hacking on Wayland when the world has pretty conclusively assigned capital to headless Linux use cases does speak for itself, yes. Divisive pieces like this make that worse and shrink the TAM of desktop Linux even further, so it’s an oddly self-defeating position to have. I’m not sure comparing detractors of software to people who believe thousands of people died in a false flag operation is defensible commentary in any light nor that this community should be giving it an audience.
- gspr 6y ago
  Why do you care so much about what someone else decides to spend their time coding on? Man, people criticize the weirdest things sometimes. I for one greatly appreciate a lot of DeVault's work. Do I think he has the softest way of expressing his opinions? No. Do I need him to in order to appreciate the technical merits of his work? No. I'm not looking for a life partner – I'm looking for excellent software.
  - zzz143 6y ago
    I didn’t say I cared. I said it was an undercapitalized endeavor partially due to infighting like this, and that sticking to it speaks for itself in terms of the goals and philosophy of a developer. I might have meant kudos for believing in something the world doesn’t and left it unspoken, for all you know, but your reaction to criticism of Drew DeVault tells me we are not discussing this on equal footing.
    - 6y ago

Deestan 6y ago

Quite a few of these are of the form: "Wayland doesn't X!" "Actually, it's on purpose or X that is not working on Wayland because [reason]." Sure but that doesn't make it work.