4 ms·

Which of course means that it must be good enough for everyone, because it works for you.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mdiesel 6y ago
No, but Wayland is not a bit of software you even think about until it goes wrong. That means the internet gets disproportionately filled with posts about Wayland not working, which presents the wrong image. When reading up on what desktop environment to use, it's hard to get a balanced view unless there are commenters like this, saying that running Wayland works.
- turminal 6y ago
  > No, but Wayland is not a bit of software you even think about until it goes wrong. That means the internet gets disproportionately filled with posts about Wayland not working, which presents the wrong image. Kind of like reverse survivorship bias. The only wayland sessions that get attention on the internet arw the ones that don't work.
arghwhat 6y ago
The funny thing about your funny remark is that the inverse is used as primary anti-wayland argument. Oh no, a single thing doesn't work yet, the entire system must be fundamentally broke for everyone. Definitely not just a bug or feature someone hasn't gotten to yet, no no. If anyone wants to keep using X, they're free to step up and maintain it. So far no one has been willing.
- bluefox 6y ago
  I don't understand the point about maintenance. Is Xorg maintained? If so, are the current maintainers handcuffed to it? I assume they aren't, so what's the problem? If Xorg is not maintained, again, what's the problem? Software is known to outlive its creators and maintainers. If there's a need, it will eventually get new maintainers. Software is not magic.
  - kevincox 6y ago
    X is barely maintained anymore. To a large extent all of the X developers are working on Wayland now. A lot of people have the impression that Wayland is some outside competitor to X but the truth is that the vast majority of the people who started Wayland are long-time X developers who know its flaws inside and out.
    - bluefox 6y ago
      Sure, I can understand people working on software X for a long time getting fed up with it and start working on software W. I can also understand that these people have strong opinions on why W is so much better. The only trouble is that others, who are possibly not developers of window systems, may not care, or may find that it breaks their software, or may not want to write software that depends on W and doesn't work on X. So what if Xorg is "barely maintained"? It works. Hell, as long as it works, it's likely better for it not to change. If there are issues, in the free software world we say "patches welcome". No developer should feel chained to a project.
      - arghwhat 6y ago
        There are not enough developers to even create a new release or review contributor patches. The Wayland community contributes a fair share due to xwayland, and we get stuck on this quite often. And yeah, it'll need fixes. over time. It's big, complex, and interacts with device drivers that are very much in flux.
        bluefox 6y ago
        I'm a bit confused about your post. Why would Xorg users care about XWayland, or new releases or contributor patches? Those who contribute to Xorg and feel stuck could step up to maintain it, if they wish. (Don't they do it already?) If they don't wish to maintain it, maybe their contributions are a waste of everyone's time? (Then again, maybe they get paid to do it, in which case it's their money-misery trade-off to make.) Over time, Xorg users may indeed need fixes. Then, I'm sure someone will step up.
jamienicol 6y ago
"X11 works perfectly there was no need for Wayland"

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

No, but Wayland is not a bit of software you even think about until it goes wrong. That means the internet gets disproportionately filled with posts about Wayland not working, which presents the wrong image. When reading up on what desktop environment to use, it's hard to get a balanced view unless there are commenters like this, saying that running Wayland works.

turminal 6y ago
> No, but Wayland is not a bit of software you even think about until it goes wrong. That means the internet gets disproportionately filled with posts about Wayland not working, which presents the wrong image. Kind of like reverse survivorship bias. The only wayland sessions that get attention on the internet arw the ones that don't work.

arghwhat 6y ago

The funny thing about your funny remark is that the inverse is used as primary anti-wayland argument. Oh no, a single thing doesn't work yet, the entire system must be fundamentally broke for everyone. Definitely not just a bug or feature someone hasn't gotten to yet, no no. If anyone wants to keep using X, they're free to step up and maintain it. So far no one has been willing.

bluefox 6y ago
I don't understand the point about maintenance. Is Xorg maintained? If so, are the current maintainers handcuffed to it? I assume they aren't, so what's the problem? If Xorg is not maintained, again, what's the problem? Software is known to outlive its creators and maintainers. If there's a need, it will eventually get new maintainers. Software is not magic.
- kevincox 6y ago
  X is barely maintained anymore. To a large extent all of the X developers are working on Wayland now. A lot of people have the impression that Wayland is some outside competitor to X but the truth is that the vast majority of the people who started Wayland are long-time X developers who know its flaws inside and out.
  - bluefox 6y ago
    Sure, I can understand people working on software X for a long time getting fed up with it and start working on software W. I can also understand that these people have strong opinions on why W is so much better. The only trouble is that others, who are possibly not developers of window systems, may not care, or may find that it breaks their software, or may not want to write software that depends on W and doesn't work on X. So what if Xorg is "barely maintained"? It works. Hell, as long as it works, it's likely better for it not to change. If there are issues, in the free software world we say "patches welcome". No developer should feel chained to a project.
    - arghwhat 6y ago
      There are not enough developers to even create a new release or review contributor patches. The Wayland community contributes a fair share due to xwayland, and we get stuck on this quite often. And yeah, it'll need fixes. over time. It's big, complex, and interacts with device drivers that are very much in flux.
      - bluefox 6y ago
        I'm a bit confused about your post. Why would Xorg users care about XWayland, or new releases or contributor patches? Those who contribute to Xorg and feel stuck could step up to maintain it, if they wish. (Don't they do it already?) If they don't wish to maintain it, maybe their contributions are a waste of everyone's time? (Then again, maybe they get paid to do it, in which case it's their money-misery trade-off to make.) Over time, Xorg users may indeed need fixes. Then, I'm sure someone will step up.

jamienicol 6y ago

"X11 works perfectly there was no need for Wayland"