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What's important is hospitalization and death. Ideally you want the vaccine to protect you against infection, but where we are today, having a vaccine with "onl

What's important is hospitalization and death. Ideally you want the vaccine to protect you against infection, but where we are today, having a vaccine with "only" 66% efficiency against infection but that protects you with > 85% from severe reaction is very promising. I'd take the J&J one shot vaccine in a heartbeat.

bluGill 6y ago
Short term yes, but long term I want to get rid of this virus and ensure my children don't get it. Since kids cannot get a vaccine that means elimination, and 95% gets us there a lot faster. I'm not even sure if we can eliminate with a 66% vaccine without covering kids - even 95% is questionable but we can get a lot closer.
- postalrat 6y ago
  As far as I know it's impossible to eliminate this virus. The science we have so far says the virus is safer for children than the vaccine.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > As far as I know it's impossible to eliminate this virus Almost no virus is impossible to eliminate or eradicate. It’s a question of cost (and reservoirs). > The science we have so far says the virus is safer for children than the vaccine Source? We haven’t tested the vaccine on children. We have had children die from Covid. This sounds like bunk.
    - postalrat 6y ago
      My only source is the logically conclusion when we don't have the data how the vaccine will affect children yet we do have data on how many children are suffering serious side effects from the virus.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > only source is the logically conclusion I don't think this is unreasonable. (I lack the domain knowledge to call it reasonable or not. Though there are few vaccines that are safe for adults and unsafe for children.) But it's a stretch to brand that as "the science we have so far."
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    That sounds preposterous. Citation? Or is this some anti-vaxxer propaganda? Of course the virus can be eliminated. Like every cold that goes around, once R0 drops below 1 it dies out and we never see it again. Completely gone. There is no long-lasting latent virus outside of a living organism, not like bacteria.
    - schreiaj 6y ago
      If the theory that it made the jump from another animal turns out to be true it means there’s a reservoir of virus in nature and short of developing some vaccine and distribution plan for that species it will be there. Or I guess eradicating the species. But that seems harmful.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Lets not make this sound like some surprising new thing. COVID from animals jump every year and its called 'a cold'. Always a different one. Always quite different ones. This one will never recur.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      This is an unknown. We know covid has spread to minks. There have been reports that it can spread to other animals. If covid spreads to something wild we may always have COVID coming back to humans from the wild animals around.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        We have 'COVID' spreading every year. Its called 'a cold'. The entire issue is, will this particularly pernicious one return. That is very unlikely (by many decimal places).
  - sojournerc 6y ago
    I wouldn't say it's impossible, but we need to weigh the costs of trying to eliminate it, versus the very real likelihood that it is already endemic. We _could_ eliminate the common cold virus, but the measures taken would be so destructive to society, it's not worth it. The cost/benefit analysis here seems to be the crux of the conflict around COVID mitigation efforts.
  - anonuser123456 6y ago
    > The science we have so far says the virus is safer for children than the vaccine. We have no such data.
    - postalrat 6y ago
      Which is why we aren't giving children the vaccine. The virus is considered safer at this point.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        Only because we haven't done all the studies to prove the vaccines work. Vaccines safe for adults are pretty much all safe for children. However the children generally need different doses from adults so work is needed to figure out the correct dose. A some point a child's (baby) immune system isn't mature enough to react to the vaccine, this doesn't mean the vaccine is dangerous, it just means it does nothing but hurt.
      - anonuser123456 6y ago
        We also do not give children the virus. Currently we do not give children the vaccine because the relative value of giving it to the elderly vs. children is considerably tilted towards the elderly and it is a limited resource. It does not imply anything about the safety of the vaccine vs. virus itself in that age group.
- aquadrop 6y ago
  Kids are not in risk group for this virus though. Check out graphs at https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps - with all the lockdowns etc going on this year, mortality for 0-14 age group even decreased a bit.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    But kids can/do pass it on. That's a big issue.
    - aquadrop 6y ago
      Yes, but if the rest are vaccinated than it's not a big issue.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Kids are too big a fraction to dismiss. And they are massive infection vectors. A kid gets sick, everybody else in the family will get sick. People with kids know that. Teachers know that. Doctors know that.
    - anonuser123456 6y ago
      As of right now, children do not appear to transmit it as readily, at least in school settings. Is this because in school they are better at social distancing protocols? Maybe. Is it because they are less infectious on average? Maybe. There are also reports that the new SA/British variants may change this situation.
      - Tepix 6y ago
        That is inaccurate.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - myth_drannon 6y ago

bluGill 6y ago

Short term yes, but long term I want to get rid of this virus and ensure my children don't get it. Since kids cannot get a vaccine that means elimination, and 95% gets us there a lot faster. I'm not even sure if we can eliminate with a 66% vaccine without covering kids - even 95% is questionable but we can get a lot closer.

postalrat 6y ago
As far as I know it's impossible to eliminate this virus. The science we have so far says the virus is safer for children than the vaccine.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > As far as I know it's impossible to eliminate this virus Almost no virus is impossible to eliminate or eradicate. It’s a question of cost (and reservoirs). > The science we have so far says the virus is safer for children than the vaccine Source? We haven’t tested the vaccine on children. We have had children die from Covid. This sounds like bunk.
  - postalrat 6y ago
    My only source is the logically conclusion when we don't have the data how the vaccine will affect children yet we do have data on how many children are suffering serious side effects from the virus.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > only source is the logically conclusion I don't think this is unreasonable. (I lack the domain knowledge to call it reasonable or not. Though there are few vaccines that are safe for adults and unsafe for children.) But it's a stretch to brand that as "the science we have so far."
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  That sounds preposterous. Citation? Or is this some anti-vaxxer propaganda? Of course the virus can be eliminated. Like every cold that goes around, once R0 drops below 1 it dies out and we never see it again. Completely gone. There is no long-lasting latent virus outside of a living organism, not like bacteria.
  - schreiaj 6y ago
    If the theory that it made the jump from another animal turns out to be true it means there’s a reservoir of virus in nature and short of developing some vaccine and distribution plan for that species it will be there. Or I guess eradicating the species. But that seems harmful.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Lets not make this sound like some surprising new thing. COVID from animals jump every year and its called 'a cold'. Always a different one. Always quite different ones. This one will never recur.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    This is an unknown. We know covid has spread to minks. There have been reports that it can spread to other animals. If covid spreads to something wild we may always have COVID coming back to humans from the wild animals around.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      We have 'COVID' spreading every year. Its called 'a cold'. The entire issue is, will this particularly pernicious one return. That is very unlikely (by many decimal places).
- sojournerc 6y ago
  I wouldn't say it's impossible, but we need to weigh the costs of trying to eliminate it, versus the very real likelihood that it is already endemic. We _could_ eliminate the common cold virus, but the measures taken would be so destructive to society, it's not worth it. The cost/benefit analysis here seems to be the crux of the conflict around COVID mitigation efforts.
- anonuser123456 6y ago
  > The science we have so far says the virus is safer for children than the vaccine. We have no such data.
  - postalrat 6y ago
    Which is why we aren't giving children the vaccine. The virus is considered safer at this point.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      Only because we haven't done all the studies to prove the vaccines work. Vaccines safe for adults are pretty much all safe for children. However the children generally need different doses from adults so work is needed to figure out the correct dose. A some point a child's (baby) immune system isn't mature enough to react to the vaccine, this doesn't mean the vaccine is dangerous, it just means it does nothing but hurt.
    - anonuser123456 6y ago
      We also do not give children the virus. Currently we do not give children the vaccine because the relative value of giving it to the elderly vs. children is considerably tilted towards the elderly and it is a limited resource. It does not imply anything about the safety of the vaccine vs. virus itself in that age group.
aquadrop 6y ago
Kids are not in risk group for this virus though. Check out graphs at https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps - with all the lockdowns etc going on this year, mortality for 0-14 age group even decreased a bit.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  But kids can/do pass it on. That's a big issue.
  - aquadrop 6y ago
    Yes, but if the rest are vaccinated than it's not a big issue.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Kids are too big a fraction to dismiss. And they are massive infection vectors. A kid gets sick, everybody else in the family will get sick. People with kids know that. Teachers know that. Doctors know that.
  - anonuser123456 6y ago
    As of right now, children do not appear to transmit it as readily, at least in school settings. Is this because in school they are better at social distancing protocols? Maybe. Is it because they are less infectious on average? Maybe. There are also reports that the new SA/British variants may change this situation.
    - Tepix 6y ago
      That is inaccurate.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- myth_drannon 6y ago