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There's a lot of conspiracy theory-type stuff on this thread, but the truth is a lot more mundane. Essentially, this is a combination of an org that doesn't do

There's a lot of conspiracy theory-type stuff on this thread, but the truth is a lot more mundane. Essentially, this is a combination of an org that doesn't do a lot of basic research combined with bureaucracy at work. I'm a DoD scientist. The funding levels listed here are at the low end for an in-house basic research project. The funding levels would support 1-2 scientists half time, including their overhead rates. Once the funding is granted it normally runs for three years without a significant review. They funded it originally because the boards that decide whether to fund these programs are staffed entirely in house by folks who aren't really researchers, and who have an incentive to keep their own people employed. They were "silent" about it because to release any information whatsoever about a program, no matter how mundane, requires at minimum a multi-week review process. You can't just answer a reporter's questions over the phone. And any such review normally requires the researcher to initiate it. So: they had a researcher who was out there, but probably had done interesting work in the past and was a good salesman. He convinced a board of non-scientists to fund him at what the Navy considers a very low level for three years. He didn't produce any publishable work so he didn't have an incentive to talk about it, and the Navy center involved didn't push him to because they have no incentive to do so.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
saberdancer 6y ago
Exactly. There is no real mystery when you look into it. If there was any real value to these "discoveries" they would be kept secret. Just the fact that the patents were public were enough to know that it's vaporware. The most surprising thing about the whole story is that some higher ups were helping push through these patents, going so far as to claim that the patents are operable [1]. How any one of them couldn't see this for vaporware is beyond me. [1] - "the inventor Salvatore Pais, Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division's (NAWCAD) patent attorney Mark O. Glut, and the U.S. Naval Aviation Enterprise's Chief Technology Officer Dr. James Sheehy, all assert that these inventions are not only enabled, but operable." - https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-aerospace-tech-boss-claims-key-ufo-patent-is-operable https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-a...
- GlenTheMachine 6y ago
  "The most surprising thing about the whole story is that some higher ups were helping push through these patents, going so far as to claim that the patents are operable [1]." I agree that the patent thing is a bit weird. It might help to know that DoD scientists receive bonuses for being granted patents. In my org, at least, so do their supervisors.
  - saberdancer 6y ago
    If The Drive/War Zone knew this, half the mystery would have been explained months ago. What a crazy system. You get a bonus if you are granted patents (including your superiors) who then back you up against the patent board that the patents are operable (when they clearly couldn't be).
    - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
      Sure, it can lead to poor outcomes. But 1) patents aren't easy things to apply for. The paperwork is exceptional, even if you're used to civil servant paperwork. And nobody is helping you. There's no administrative staff to do the application, so it all falls on the scientist. Therefore, if you want your scientists to patent things there has to be some incentive; 2) the bonus isn't very large.
  - bonestamp2 6y ago
    How much is the bonus, or what is the range for those bonuses? I remember when I worked at an automaker in the 90s, one of my colleagues got a check for a little over a million dollars from a cost savings initiative that he suggested. At the time, the company was paying the suggester 10% of any cost savings they would recommend after the first year of savings was accounted. That's pretty significant and motivated a lot of people to implement cost savings.
    - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
      $1000, split between all the patent holders. Like I said, it isn't much. My understanding is that if anything is licensed you can receive a portion of the licensing fees. That's never happened to me.
jvanderbot 6y ago
Right. 500k / 3 years is well within the "Pocket Veto" levels of funding. I bet they gave some money to cover the development of reports stating definitively that it won't work, in the off chance there might have been something there and someone might get a burr in their butt about it not being evaluated.
darkphoton 6y ago
You are correct with your assessment. I will be in Washington DC and at CIA later this month. If you work on projects related to SBIR, DARPA, ARPA-E, especially hardware related to SDR, wireless, hybrid FPGAs, UAVs, aerospace, propulsion, ciphersystems, cryptosystems, QFT, VR or quantum coherence, please contact me. I can be found on EFNet or you can contact me directly at AkihikoRyoma@gmail.com. I work with the JASONs but I do not hold a security clearance. Even private contractors who work with JASONs do not trust the American government. If you are unaware, JASON Group was founded in 1958 as Project 137. I do not like MITRE. Whenever possible, we terminate MITRE contracts. They are lazy, over paid, losers. MITRE provides administrative support for the JASONs, and even that they do very poorly. I also own an investigative agency, a pentesting attack vector firm, a private technology incubator (PINC), a global private intelligence agency and a private military company. Meet me in DC and you will see.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  Is this a LARP?
  - jeffrallen 6y ago
    Is this real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality.
    - darkphoton 6y ago
      Imagine how I feel. Like I care about a bunch of nerds on a fake hacker site. I got hot smart girls to hang out with. https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow
  - 93po 6y ago
    Or mental illness
    - darkphoton 6y ago
      So love how Dang/HN tolerates people posting insulting comments without regard? Spiritual So Response to the Bots https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

saberdancer 6y ago

Exactly. There is no real mystery when you look into it. If there was any real value to these "discoveries" they would be kept secret. Just the fact that the patents were public were enough to know that it's vaporware. The most surprising thing about the whole story is that some higher ups were helping push through these patents, going so far as to claim that the patents are operable [1]. How any one of them couldn't see this for vaporware is beyond me. [1] - "the inventor Salvatore Pais, Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division's (NAWCAD) patent attorney Mark O. Glut, and the U.S. Naval Aviation Enterprise's Chief Technology Officer Dr. James Sheehy, all assert that these inventions are not only enabled, but operable." - https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-aerospace-tech-boss-claims-key-ufo-patent-is-operable https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-a...

GlenTheMachine 6y ago
"The most surprising thing about the whole story is that some higher ups were helping push through these patents, going so far as to claim that the patents are operable [1]." I agree that the patent thing is a bit weird. It might help to know that DoD scientists receive bonuses for being granted patents. In my org, at least, so do their supervisors.
- saberdancer 6y ago
  If The Drive/War Zone knew this, half the mystery would have been explained months ago. What a crazy system. You get a bonus if you are granted patents (including your superiors) who then back you up against the patent board that the patents are operable (when they clearly couldn't be).
  - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
    Sure, it can lead to poor outcomes. But 1) patents aren't easy things to apply for. The paperwork is exceptional, even if you're used to civil servant paperwork. And nobody is helping you. There's no administrative staff to do the application, so it all falls on the scientist. Therefore, if you want your scientists to patent things there has to be some incentive; 2) the bonus isn't very large.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  How much is the bonus, or what is the range for those bonuses? I remember when I worked at an automaker in the 90s, one of my colleagues got a check for a little over a million dollars from a cost savings initiative that he suggested. At the time, the company was paying the suggester 10% of any cost savings they would recommend after the first year of savings was accounted. That's pretty significant and motivated a lot of people to implement cost savings.
  - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
    $1000, split between all the patent holders. Like I said, it isn't much. My understanding is that if anything is licensed you can receive a portion of the licensing fees. That's never happened to me.

jvanderbot 6y ago

Right. 500k / 3 years is well within the "Pocket Veto" levels of funding. I bet they gave some money to cover the development of reports stating definitively that it won't work, in the off chance there might have been something there and someone might get a burr in their butt about it not being evaluated.

darkphoton 6y ago

You are correct with your assessment. I will be in Washington DC and at CIA later this month. If you work on projects related to SBIR, DARPA, ARPA-E, especially hardware related to SDR, wireless, hybrid FPGAs, UAVs, aerospace, propulsion, ciphersystems, cryptosystems, QFT, VR or quantum coherence, please contact me. I can be found on EFNet or you can contact me directly at AkihikoRyoma@gmail.com. I work with the JASONs but I do not hold a security clearance. Even private contractors who work with JASONs do not trust the American government. If you are unaware, JASON Group was founded in 1958 as Project 137. I do not like MITRE. Whenever possible, we terminate MITRE contracts. They are lazy, over paid, losers. MITRE provides administrative support for the JASONs, and even that they do very poorly. I also own an investigative agency, a pentesting attack vector firm, a private technology incubator (PINC), a global private intelligence agency and a private military company. Meet me in DC and you will see.

arthurcolle 6y ago
Is this a LARP?
- jeffrallen 6y ago
  Is this real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality.
  - darkphoton 6y ago
    Imagine how I feel. Like I care about a bunch of nerds on a fake hacker site. I got hot smart girls to hang out with. https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow
- 93po 6y ago
  Or mental illness
  - darkphoton 6y ago
    So love how Dang/HN tolerates people posting insulting comments without regard? Spiritual So Response to the Bots https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow https://youtu.be/xa9hfq8hIow