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> Same thing with checking temperature at the door (it doesn't work because people can either never get a fever or be infectious before/after one). But it stop

> Same thing with checking temperature at the door (it doesn't work because people can either never get a fever or be infectious before/after one). But it stops some cases, which is much better than no cases. > Even when it comes to masks we still have very few of the public using well fitting N95 and manufacturers mass-producing masks that barely even cover the side of people's faces (i.e. they don't work as well as they could, even for cloth!). Because the unfitted masks significantly reduce the amount of large particulates (ie, saliva) spread into the air, because they're caught by the mask which is directly in front of the mouth/nose. Arguing that seatbelts shouldn't be used because they don't prevent all injuries doesn't make much sense. Sure, we can do better, but it's not "COVID theater". It's rational, useful actions being taken to mitigate the impact of COVID.

maxerickson 6y ago
They aren't arguing that cloth masks are useless, rather that they should not be the standard. Following the car analogy, it's like not stopping at seat belts and adding airbags and traction control and so on. The improved measure (high quality masks) is inexpensive enough that it should be the standard.
Someone1234 6y ago
> Arguing that seatbelts shouldn't be used because they don't prevent all injuries doesn't make much sense. That's an incredibly disingenuous/uncharitable analogy for what I actually posted. A more accurate one would be: > Two-point Seatbelts cause massive internal injuries during an accident, why haven't we improved them/the guidelines in producing them after 40+ years? (see period from 1910 to 1960). Cloth masks were created in a rush to fill a void. Then a year passed. In that year nobody spent time/money improving/researching the design of cloth for better coverage nor did we increase the supply/availability of more effective filter material/fitment. It is fair to criticize the lack of improvement partially given the urgent public health crisis.
- ivankolev 6y ago
  There are people working on it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/next-generation-masks-ppe-research-1.5894303 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/next-generation-masks-ppe...
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  Only, cloth masks _haven't_ caused massive damage, or even any damage. They've prevented damage, possibly _massive_ damage. Can we do better? Yes. Are cloth masks useless "theater"? No, not even remotely. > That's an incredibly disingenuous/uncharitable analogy for what I actually posted It's really not. It would be disingenuous if it was aimed at one part of your post (we can do better). However, it is perfectly applicable when aimed at the "this is useless" part.
  - Someone1234 6y ago
    > Only, cloth masks _haven't_ caused massive damage, or even any damage. I think you replied to the wrong comment/comment chain, it said nothing even ballpark like that. The word "damage" doesn't appear in the comment chain aside from this comment. > Are cloth masks useless "theater"? Again, this wasn't something anyone in the comment chain claimed. > However, it is perfectly applicable when aimed at the "this is useless" part. That quote is a fabrication. The word "useless" doesn't even appear in this comment chain aside from this post/quote. So when you're creating fake quotes and making multiple baseless claims (quite literally putting in words/quotes that don't exist), it is the epitome of disingenuous.
    - RHSeeger 6y ago
      > The word "damage" doesn't appear in the commen I was "converting" from _injuries_ (in relation to seat belts) to _damage_ (in relation to masks) as the closest parallel I could make. My apologies that it wasn't clear. ---- >> Are cloth masks useless "theater"? > Again, this wasn't something anyone in the comment chain claimed. I was grouping the comment about how most of what had been done was "COVID theater" and the comment about masks together. The overall post read, to me, in a way that made it sound like the former also applied to the later. That may not have been intended. ---- >> However, it is perfectly applicable when aimed at the "this is useless" part. > That quote is a fabrication. It's another wording for part of the original post. The double quotes were intended to indicate the grouping/meaning, not the actual words. I've been using ">" where something is an actual quote, which is generally standard for text communication, but I can see where it might be confusing to someone not used to it. > most of it was "COVID theater" rather than intended to actually make people safer That statement, I believe, comes across very clearly as presenting a lot of what was done as useless. ---- I'm going to stop on this thread, as replying to multiple individual blocks of text (as I have done here) tends to be a sign that things have either gotten off topic or people are going to stop caring. The high level summary of what I originally meant was that I believe the steps we are taking are very useful, but agree we should be doing more.
sandworm101 6y ago
>> But it stops some cases, which is much better than no cases. Any test that gives a false sense of security may cause people to do things that they otherwise should not, such as travel. Spot temperature checks are not effective but doing them at airports makes people feel safer. Safe-feeling people travel more, spreading more virus.
cactus2093 6y ago
I think the comment you’re replying to was saying covid theater is the cleaning and temp checks, not the masks. As for masks, I still see people wearing bandanas and scarves all the time, and my understanding is these are much less effective than even a simple surgical mask. I think your bar is much too low, sounds like you’re saying as long as we’re doing more than nothing that’s good enough. There’s no excuse almost a year in that there exist masks which are significantly more effective than what most people are wearing and we’re making no effort to encourage people to use them.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  > I think your bar is much too low, sounds like you’re saying as long as we’re doing more than nothing that’s good enough. That's not what I meant, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. What I meant was that we're doing a number of different things that aren't perfect... and I constantly see people complain about it not being perfect so why are we doing it... and my response is that every little bit helps. I agree that we can and should be doing more. I just think saying what is being done now is mostly useless theater is ridiculous and dangerous, and results in people not bothering to take even basic precautions "because it doesn't help".

maxerickson 6y ago

They aren't arguing that cloth masks are useless, rather that they should not be the standard. Following the car analogy, it's like not stopping at seat belts and adding airbags and traction control and so on. The improved measure (high quality masks) is inexpensive enough that it should be the standard.

Someone1234 6y ago

> Arguing that seatbelts shouldn't be used because they don't prevent all injuries doesn't make much sense. That's an incredibly disingenuous/uncharitable analogy for what I actually posted. A more accurate one would be: > Two-point Seatbelts cause massive internal injuries during an accident, why haven't we improved them/the guidelines in producing them after 40+ years? (see period from 1910 to 1960). Cloth masks were created in a rush to fill a void. Then a year passed. In that year nobody spent time/money improving/researching the design of cloth for better coverage nor did we increase the supply/availability of more effective filter material/fitment. It is fair to criticize the lack of improvement partially given the urgent public health crisis.

ivankolev 6y ago
There are people working on it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/next-generation-masks-ppe-research-1.5894303 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/next-generation-masks-ppe...
RHSeeger 6y ago
Only, cloth masks _haven't_ caused massive damage, or even any damage. They've prevented damage, possibly _massive_ damage. Can we do better? Yes. Are cloth masks useless "theater"? No, not even remotely. > That's an incredibly disingenuous/uncharitable analogy for what I actually posted It's really not. It would be disingenuous if it was aimed at one part of your post (we can do better). However, it is perfectly applicable when aimed at the "this is useless" part.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  > Only, cloth masks _haven't_ caused massive damage, or even any damage. I think you replied to the wrong comment/comment chain, it said nothing even ballpark like that. The word "damage" doesn't appear in the comment chain aside from this comment. > Are cloth masks useless "theater"? Again, this wasn't something anyone in the comment chain claimed. > However, it is perfectly applicable when aimed at the "this is useless" part. That quote is a fabrication. The word "useless" doesn't even appear in this comment chain aside from this post/quote. So when you're creating fake quotes and making multiple baseless claims (quite literally putting in words/quotes that don't exist), it is the epitome of disingenuous.
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    > The word "damage" doesn't appear in the commen I was "converting" from _injuries_ (in relation to seat belts) to _damage_ (in relation to masks) as the closest parallel I could make. My apologies that it wasn't clear. ---- >> Are cloth masks useless "theater"? > Again, this wasn't something anyone in the comment chain claimed. I was grouping the comment about how most of what had been done was "COVID theater" and the comment about masks together. The overall post read, to me, in a way that made it sound like the former also applied to the later. That may not have been intended. ---- >> However, it is perfectly applicable when aimed at the "this is useless" part. > That quote is a fabrication. It's another wording for part of the original post. The double quotes were intended to indicate the grouping/meaning, not the actual words. I've been using ">" where something is an actual quote, which is generally standard for text communication, but I can see where it might be confusing to someone not used to it. > most of it was "COVID theater" rather than intended to actually make people safer That statement, I believe, comes across very clearly as presenting a lot of what was done as useless. ---- I'm going to stop on this thread, as replying to multiple individual blocks of text (as I have done here) tends to be a sign that things have either gotten off topic or people are going to stop caring. The high level summary of what I originally meant was that I believe the steps we are taking are very useful, but agree we should be doing more.

sandworm101 6y ago

>> But it stops some cases, which is much better than no cases. Any test that gives a false sense of security may cause people to do things that they otherwise should not, such as travel. Spot temperature checks are not effective but doing them at airports makes people feel safer. Safe-feeling people travel more, spreading more virus.

cactus2093 6y ago

I think the comment you’re replying to was saying covid theater is the cleaning and temp checks, not the masks. As for masks, I still see people wearing bandanas and scarves all the time, and my understanding is these are much less effective than even a simple surgical mask. I think your bar is much too low, sounds like you’re saying as long as we’re doing more than nothing that’s good enough. There’s no excuse almost a year in that there exist masks which are significantly more effective than what most people are wearing and we’re making no effort to encourage people to use them.

RHSeeger 6y ago
> I think your bar is much too low, sounds like you’re saying as long as we’re doing more than nothing that’s good enough. That's not what I meant, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. What I meant was that we're doing a number of different things that aren't perfect... and I constantly see people complain about it not being perfect so why are we doing it... and my response is that every little bit helps. I agree that we can and should be doing more. I just think saying what is being done now is mostly useless theater is ridiculous and dangerous, and results in people not bothering to take even basic precautions "because it doesn't help".