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> It's the sort of thing that seems attractive to junior developers, but more seasoned folks know that the legacy system contains years of embedded knowledge an

> It's the sort of thing that seems attractive to junior developers, but more seasoned folks know that the legacy system contains years of embedded knowledge and workarounds for "real world" issues. Many seasoned Xorg developers work on Wayland. All the decades of lessons form Xorg _were_ carried over to Wayland.

sokoloff 6y ago
Many of the lessons are being carried over no doubt. Others are embodied in the heads of people not working on Wayland or in the codebase itself as emergent properties from interactions never consciously designed. There will be some loss of lessons with almost no doubt.
phkahler 6y ago
>> Many seasoned Xorg developers work on Wayland. All of them are either working on Wayland or moved on. There are no Xorg developers.
- scaladev 6y ago
  Who is downvoting this and why? Face it, Xorg is on life support. The only patches it still receives are Xwayland-related fixes.
  - shock 6y ago
    I don't expect a stable application to receive many patches. How many patches do you think Xorg should receive nowadays and in what areas?
    - bluGill 6y ago
      There are a ton of long standing security issues. Which is why they are working on wayland: X11 isn't possible to secure as bad security is part of how it works.
      - iforgotpassword 6y ago
        My desktop is not a smartphone where I download random shady apps from an app store. I don't need any of the "security" wayland offers. If I don't trust some software I simply won't apt install it.
        phkahler 6y ago
        You are not the only user.
        sam_lowry_ 6y ago
        I am the other user like him. Where are your imaginary users?
    - paulie_a 6y ago
      X isn't stable
elric 6y ago
No. That's exactly what I'm saying doesn't happen with a rewrite, ever. You think you take all of the knowledge with you, because after all, you wrote the thing so you know how it works. But it just doesn't work that way. There is too much complexity to carry around in your head. I'm sure many lessons from Xorg were carried over to Wayland, but "all" is an insane exaggeration. And I'm sure many new mistakes were introduced. It's inevitable with any new system.
- rektide 6y ago
  too hardline. progress is possible in this world. software is complex but starting with better sorted fundamentals counts for a bulk ass ton of the marbles.

sokoloff 6y ago

Many of the lessons are being carried over no doubt. Others are embodied in the heads of people not working on Wayland or in the codebase itself as emergent properties from interactions never consciously designed. There will be some loss of lessons with almost no doubt.

phkahler 6y ago

>> Many seasoned Xorg developers work on Wayland. All of them are either working on Wayland or moved on. There are no Xorg developers.

scaladev 6y ago
Who is downvoting this and why? Face it, Xorg is on life support. The only patches it still receives are Xwayland-related fixes.
- shock 6y ago
  I don't expect a stable application to receive many patches. How many patches do you think Xorg should receive nowadays and in what areas?
  - bluGill 6y ago
    There are a ton of long standing security issues. Which is why they are working on wayland: X11 isn't possible to secure as bad security is part of how it works.
    - iforgotpassword 6y ago
      My desktop is not a smartphone where I download random shady apps from an app store. I don't need any of the "security" wayland offers. If I don't trust some software I simply won't apt install it.
      - phkahler 6y ago
        You are not the only user.
        sam_lowry_ 6y ago
        I am the other user like him. Where are your imaginary users?
  - paulie_a 6y ago
    X isn't stable

elric 6y ago

No. That's exactly what I'm saying doesn't happen with a rewrite, ever. You think you take all of the knowledge with you, because after all, you wrote the thing so you know how it works. But it just doesn't work that way. There is too much complexity to carry around in your head. I'm sure many lessons from Xorg were carried over to Wayland, but "all" is an insane exaggeration. And I'm sure many new mistakes were introduced. It's inevitable with any new system.

rektide 6y ago
too hardline. progress is possible in this world. software is complex but starting with better sorted fundamentals counts for a bulk ass ton of the marbles.