4 ms·

> Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but f

> Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Problem is, ever so often what should reduce technical debt ends up also reducing "technical assets" even more. Firefox is a perfect example of this, they reduced technical debt by selling of so many features that it was sometimes hard to see a single unique selling point except not being owned by what I think is the worlds largest data miner (and quitter)! For someone who used to use and advocate Firefox this hurts. What is left is certainly better than Chrome on a number of points (except being bug compatible with Chrome) but the differences are now so small on every point except "not being owned by Google" that they are hardly visible to non tech folks. Edits: a bunch above, mostly to soften and clarify. Also: IMO the current management at Mozilla inherited a fortune of goodwill, a best in class web browser and significant tech debt. They supposedly traded goodwill and features for reduction in tech debt but a few years later I suspect they squandered most of it on coolness because if there was less tech debt now, some of the old features should now be trivial to add back.

michaelmrose 6y ago
Firefox has treesyle tabs which has zero good alternatives on chrome. Tridacyl, vim like bindings for your browser + ability to bind javascript or native shell is more powerful than chrome alternatives. Chromium is losing google sync and chrome and chromium are Effectively destroying adblocking sooner or later courtesy of manifest v3. Ublock origin and treestyle tabs alone make a compelling case and are visually and functionally distinctive.
- simias 6y ago
  Tridactyl is extremely quircky due to the limitations imposed to Web extensions though. I remember good old Vimperator to be more reliable. I get why they did it though, allowing extensions to effectively take over the browser sounds like a recipe for disaster. Too bad there isn't a way to opt into it when it's actually what you want.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    It's limitations aren't really quirky it's extremely predictable that its bindings doesn't work on special tabs example reader mode
  - eitland 6y ago
    I'm experimenting with Pale Moon now. It actuall feels snappier than the latest Firefox, but a profile reset on my main Firefox might change that (traditionally with my usage patterns there's little improvement to be seen from that.) So for now the advantages of Firefox vs Chrome are: - not Google - less RAM usage - slightly better extensions And for Palemoon vs Firefox: Pro Palemoon: - snappier (?) - extensions work - looks better (subjective) and can be skinned Advantages Firefox: - more secure (maybe, Palemoon unlike Mozilla doesn't have a history of abusing extension bundling for various promos)
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      Firefox me robot wasn't a real threat to your security whereas security holes patched in firefox but not palemoon certainly are. Your browser is your number one vulnerability and you have selected poorly. https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use-waterfox-pale-moon-or-basilisk/ https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use...
      - eitland 6y ago
        > and you have selected poorly. Note that I write "experimenting with". I'm fairly aware that my browser is the main vulnerability, thank you, which is why I run different (mainstream) browsers for different sites already and actually want even more lock down for certain use cases than what IT currently privides. I'll also add that in the last 20 years I've had one infection on a machine that I alone used (a drive by exploit in a banner ad on a developer blog I read) so a combination of carefulness/paranoia certainly helps ;-) And no, I'm not suggesting anyone should uncritically download a random browser and start exploring the dark corners of the web. Also: I agree, the robot thing was harmless, but that said: do you remember Superfish? The little thing that Lenovo added to their laptops? Which turned out to be a giant easily exploitable hole? As for the robot extension: - when I noticed it in between my own extensions it scared me quite badly until I managed to look it up - companies that does such things aren't trustworthy. The robot thing was harmless. Superfish wasn't. Do you trust marketing executives to know the difference?
- eitland 6y ago
  TreeStyleTabs absolutely work but is crippled compared to what it used to be. In fact I asked yesterday and it was an interesting experience: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332447#c170 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332447#c170
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    You can get rid of the top tab bar is your user css file other than that it seems kind of identical in functionally to me save for the keybinding gui for it being in a different screen under extension bindings if I recall correctly
    - eitland 6y ago
      Yep. Only Mozilla makes it harder year by year. Here's from January last year, another hoop to jump through: https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab/issues/2450 https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab/issues/2450 For all the talk about UX, why cannot someone be bothered to sit down and talk to the actual people who use the product and ask what the ux problems are? At this point is there anyone left using Firefox except stubborn power users like me?
paulie_a 6y ago
Sometimes things don't need to be feature packed and is a negative

michaelmrose 6y ago

Firefox has treesyle tabs which has zero good alternatives on chrome. Tridacyl, vim like bindings for your browser + ability to bind javascript or native shell is more powerful than chrome alternatives. Chromium is losing google sync and chrome and chromium are Effectively destroying adblocking sooner or later courtesy of manifest v3. Ublock origin and treestyle tabs alone make a compelling case and are visually and functionally distinctive.

simias 6y ago
Tridactyl is extremely quircky due to the limitations imposed to Web extensions though. I remember good old Vimperator to be more reliable. I get why they did it though, allowing extensions to effectively take over the browser sounds like a recipe for disaster. Too bad there isn't a way to opt into it when it's actually what you want.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  It's limitations aren't really quirky it's extremely predictable that its bindings doesn't work on special tabs example reader mode
- eitland 6y ago
  I'm experimenting with Pale Moon now. It actuall feels snappier than the latest Firefox, but a profile reset on my main Firefox might change that (traditionally with my usage patterns there's little improvement to be seen from that.) So for now the advantages of Firefox vs Chrome are: - not Google - less RAM usage - slightly better extensions And for Palemoon vs Firefox: Pro Palemoon: - snappier (?) - extensions work - looks better (subjective) and can be skinned Advantages Firefox: - more secure (maybe, Palemoon unlike Mozilla doesn't have a history of abusing extension bundling for various promos)
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    Firefox me robot wasn't a real threat to your security whereas security holes patched in firefox but not palemoon certainly are. Your browser is your number one vulnerability and you have selected poorly. https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use-waterfox-pale-moon-or-basilisk/ https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use...
    - eitland 6y ago
      > and you have selected poorly. Note that I write "experimenting with". I'm fairly aware that my browser is the main vulnerability, thank you, which is why I run different (mainstream) browsers for different sites already and actually want even more lock down for certain use cases than what IT currently privides. I'll also add that in the last 20 years I've had one infection on a machine that I alone used (a drive by exploit in a banner ad on a developer blog I read) so a combination of carefulness/paranoia certainly helps ;-) And no, I'm not suggesting anyone should uncritically download a random browser and start exploring the dark corners of the web. Also: I agree, the robot thing was harmless, but that said: do you remember Superfish? The little thing that Lenovo added to their laptops? Which turned out to be a giant easily exploitable hole? As for the robot extension: - when I noticed it in between my own extensions it scared me quite badly until I managed to look it up - companies that does such things aren't trustworthy. The robot thing was harmless. Superfish wasn't. Do you trust marketing executives to know the difference?
eitland 6y ago
TreeStyleTabs absolutely work but is crippled compared to what it used to be. In fact I asked yesterday and it was an interesting experience: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332447#c170 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332447#c170
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  You can get rid of the top tab bar is your user css file other than that it seems kind of identical in functionally to me save for the keybinding gui for it being in a different screen under extension bindings if I recall correctly
  - eitland 6y ago
    Yep. Only Mozilla makes it harder year by year. Here's from January last year, another hoop to jump through: https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab/issues/2450 https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab/issues/2450 For all the talk about UX, why cannot someone be bothered to sit down and talk to the actual people who use the product and ask what the ux problems are? At this point is there anyone left using Firefox except stubborn power users like me?

paulie_a 6y ago

Sometimes things don't need to be feature packed and is a negative