4 ms·

Not much constructive here... I'm of the opposite opinion. Think twice before doing anything with X as the experience and knowledge you gain will soon be usele

by tjoff 6y ago

Not much constructive here... I'm of the opposite opinion. Think twice before doing anything with X as the experience and knowledge you gain will soon be useless. Instead invest in wayland, it works great and will only get better and X will only get worse at this point. The pain points are few but yes, if you must have screen sharing with a particular app that doesn't work with wayland that might be a dealbreaker. If not, no reason to stay with X, pick a time when you are configuring a new computer or whenever it is a good time to make the switch and try it out.

badjeans 6y ago
> soon That's been the sentiment for the past 12 years and X11 still works great and wayland implementations are a buggy, slow, featureless mess.
- tjoff 6y ago
  They aren't though. And X is pretty deprecated by now.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > They aren't though. Remote desktop, game screen recording, screenshots, how do those work?
    - tjoff 6y ago
      As I said, there are pain points. If you need application X to do Y and it doesn't work in wayland that might be a dealbreaker for you. I'm having no issues with screen recording and screenshots. Haven't attempted nor need remote desktop but know people that do it. Obviously don't have the same breadth of alternatives such as X.
  - posix_me_less 6y ago
    X is not deprecated by the global community at all, only by the few who push Wayland.
    - tjoff 6y ago
      ... and those developing X.
- arepublicadoceu 6y ago
  You can honestly say it has less features than you would like, but saying that it's buggy, slow and a mess is simply dishonest. For instance, Wayland handle my multi dpi displays like a champ. Whereas xorg is a no end nightmare with no acceptable outcome; In wayland, I have tearfree scrolling by default. Whereas on xorg I have to access some old magic knowledge hidden in the archwiki. So, in a sense, wayland have more features (For me) than xorg, whereas xorg is the featureless mess (For me).
michaelmrose 6y ago
Something that isn't particularly good 12 years in will likely never be so. At 12 years in some really basic stuff is just now rolling in. In general the idea of natural progress is completely imaginary. The general nature of things is to get worse not better entropy always wins.
- tjoff 6y ago
  X isn't particularly good either, and even older ...
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    It night not be great but it does many things Effectively and doesn't require each graphical environment to individually handle low level hardware details.
    - tjoff 6y ago
      Yes, and it is about to die. Wayland could have been executed better to ease adoption, no doubt. More than anything momentum is required, which we arguable are beginning to see. The question today isn't X vs. Wayland. It is Wayland vs. Y. Whatever Y is.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        The people who would greatly benefit from not needing to maintain it shout from the rooftops that it is dead because they wish it was already so. In fact its probably be mainstream for another 10-15 years and existing for another 25. Look how long it took to sort of but not really kill python 2. Thus the choice today is actually X vs Wayland because those are the 2 choices that can provide a functional desktop at this point in time. As for possible Ys I see SurfaceFlinger from android which doesn't look like its suitable for a desktop Arcan a one man band that doesn't look apt to replace X soon https://arcan-fe.com/videos/ https://arcan-fe.com/videos/ Whatever Redox uses. I don't quite understand from a casual inspection how graphics works there. I would bet money that the choice over the next 10 years will STILL be X vs Wayland with more stuff wedged in until wayland is more functional but as kludgy as X wherein someone will have the brilliant idea to replace it with something more "modern"

by tjoff 6y ago

badjeans 6y ago

> soon That's been the sentiment for the past 12 years and X11 still works great and wayland implementations are a buggy, slow, featureless mess.

tjoff 6y ago
They aren't though. And X is pretty deprecated by now.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > They aren't though. Remote desktop, game screen recording, screenshots, how do those work?
  - tjoff 6y ago
    As I said, there are pain points. If you need application X to do Y and it doesn't work in wayland that might be a dealbreaker for you. I'm having no issues with screen recording and screenshots. Haven't attempted nor need remote desktop but know people that do it. Obviously don't have the same breadth of alternatives such as X.
- posix_me_less 6y ago
  X is not deprecated by the global community at all, only by the few who push Wayland.
  - tjoff 6y ago
    ... and those developing X.
arepublicadoceu 6y ago
You can honestly say it has less features than you would like, but saying that it's buggy, slow and a mess is simply dishonest. For instance, Wayland handle my multi dpi displays like a champ. Whereas xorg is a no end nightmare with no acceptable outcome; In wayland, I have tearfree scrolling by default. Whereas on xorg I have to access some old magic knowledge hidden in the archwiki. So, in a sense, wayland have more features (For me) than xorg, whereas xorg is the featureless mess (For me).

michaelmrose 6y ago

Something that isn't particularly good 12 years in will likely never be so. At 12 years in some really basic stuff is just now rolling in. In general the idea of natural progress is completely imaginary. The general nature of things is to get worse not better entropy always wins.

tjoff 6y ago
X isn't particularly good either, and even older ...
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  It night not be great but it does many things Effectively and doesn't require each graphical environment to individually handle low level hardware details.
  - tjoff 6y ago
    Yes, and it is about to die. Wayland could have been executed better to ease adoption, no doubt. More than anything momentum is required, which we arguable are beginning to see. The question today isn't X vs. Wayland. It is Wayland vs. Y. Whatever Y is.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      The people who would greatly benefit from not needing to maintain it shout from the rooftops that it is dead because they wish it was already so. In fact its probably be mainstream for another 10-15 years and existing for another 25. Look how long it took to sort of but not really kill python 2. Thus the choice today is actually X vs Wayland because those are the 2 choices that can provide a functional desktop at this point in time. As for possible Ys I see SurfaceFlinger from android which doesn't look like its suitable for a desktop Arcan a one man band that doesn't look apt to replace X soon https://arcan-fe.com/videos/ https://arcan-fe.com/videos/ Whatever Redox uses. I don't quite understand from a casual inspection how graphics works there. I would bet money that the choice over the next 10 years will STILL be X vs Wayland with more stuff wedged in until wayland is more functional but as kludgy as X wherein someone will have the brilliant idea to replace it with something more "modern"