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That's not what I am saying at all. I mean for the sake of conversation and discussion, asking to even explain a belief, for understanding. Sometimes even the q

That's not what I am saying at all. I mean for the sake of conversation and discussion, asking to even explain a belief, for understanding. Sometimes even the question is seemed as a threat. I didn't say I want to change anyone's mind. Wanting to have a discussion about important topics with loved ones isn't an instant trip down selfishness lane. I see what you are saying, but you jumped the gun a little bit.

ineedasername 6y ago
It's not really anything new: Most people generally don't want to entertain ideas highly contrary to their own. Enshrined in the the old adage that you should never discuss religion or politics in some circumstances. Thanksgiving dinners have been getting ruined for decades by it. The rate of that happening has very likely increased though.
sillysaurusx 6y ago
Wanting to have a discussion about important topics with loved ones isn't an instant trip down selfishness lane. Are you sure? I don’t know. It helped me to view it as “yes, this is selfish. They’re more important to me than the topic.” The reason they’re talking is to feel good with themselves (as we all are). But asking someone to explain a tricky subject throws that off, doesn’t it? Another way to phrase it: why care so much what they think? If they don’t explain themselves, then they probably don’t care whether you agree. To reframe the question a bit, what do you feel you would get out of it if they explained their belief structure to you? (Explain your belief about this, ha.)
- zelphirkalt 6y ago
  What is your definition of selfishness then? Looking at the things you wrote: > They’re more important to me than the topic. Why does it mean one is selfish, when _a topic_ (not oneself) is more important to oneself than that other person? > The reason they’re talking is to feel good with themselves (as we all are). But asking someone to explain a tricky subject throws that off, doesn’t it? Perhaps. But the interpretation is still not immediately "selfishness" for me. You are not there to please them and make them feel good. But how does that immediately become "selfish"? > To reframe the question a bit, what do you feel you would get out of it if they explained their belief structure to you? (Explain your belief about this, ha.) Yes, that is a good introspective question, that one maybe should ask oneself. However, if anything that could somehow be interpreted as "wanting something for oneself" is considered selfish, then we can shut down all our media right now and stop talking to everyone else. You can always claim "You did this or that conversation only to feel good about yourself! So Selfish!" So I am asking: What is your definition of selfishness?
  - thebean11 6y ago
    > Why does it mean one is selfish, when _a topic_ (not oneself) is more important to oneself than that other person? You care about the topic, they don't want to talk about it for whatever reason. You are trying to get them to do something they don't like, because _you_ like it.
    - zelphirkalt 6y ago
      But that is an assumption right there. Perhaps it is simply an important topic in the context of the moment. It doesn't have to mean one personally likes the topic. There can be a necessity, that one has to discuss this topic.
      - thebean11 6y ago
        This is a hypothetical, importance or non-importance is an assumption either way. I didn't realize importance was assumed here.
darkerside 6y ago
Based on what you've said, I get the same impression. If you want to connect with somebody, don't talk. Listen. Even if you "know" you're right. As stubborn as you think those people are, they have a good case for arguing that you are just as stubborn if not more so.
- marvin 6y ago
  Most people you'd disagree with generally have a point, if you get past the quick-release talking points. If one tries to have a genuine conversation, it might be surprising to many how much common ground can be found.
- dimitrios1 6y ago
  Do you hang out with people who just talk all day without a prompt? How do you listen if you don't first ask?
  - darkerside 6y ago
    I'm sorry, but I truly don't understand your point here. Do you mind explaining it for me?
  - darkerside 6y ago
    I think I get your question now. Honestly, there is an art to it, and you can't always just come out and ask. It exposes that you care more about the information than you do about the person. Maybe bring it up gently the next time it comes up in context. Or, when it's just the two of you, ask if you can bring up a potentially sensitive question with no judgement involved, just to learn.

ineedasername 6y ago

It's not really anything new: Most people generally don't want to entertain ideas highly contrary to their own. Enshrined in the the old adage that you should never discuss religion or politics in some circumstances. Thanksgiving dinners have been getting ruined for decades by it. The rate of that happening has very likely increased though.

sillysaurusx 6y ago

Wanting to have a discussion about important topics with loved ones isn't an instant trip down selfishness lane. Are you sure? I don’t know. It helped me to view it as “yes, this is selfish. They’re more important to me than the topic.” The reason they’re talking is to feel good with themselves (as we all are). But asking someone to explain a tricky subject throws that off, doesn’t it? Another way to phrase it: why care so much what they think? If they don’t explain themselves, then they probably don’t care whether you agree. To reframe the question a bit, what do you feel you would get out of it if they explained their belief structure to you? (Explain your belief about this, ha.)

zelphirkalt 6y ago
What is your definition of selfishness then? Looking at the things you wrote: > They’re more important to me than the topic. Why does it mean one is selfish, when _a topic_ (not oneself) is more important to oneself than that other person? > The reason they’re talking is to feel good with themselves (as we all are). But asking someone to explain a tricky subject throws that off, doesn’t it? Perhaps. But the interpretation is still not immediately "selfishness" for me. You are not there to please them and make them feel good. But how does that immediately become "selfish"? > To reframe the question a bit, what do you feel you would get out of it if they explained their belief structure to you? (Explain your belief about this, ha.) Yes, that is a good introspective question, that one maybe should ask oneself. However, if anything that could somehow be interpreted as "wanting something for oneself" is considered selfish, then we can shut down all our media right now and stop talking to everyone else. You can always claim "You did this or that conversation only to feel good about yourself! So Selfish!" So I am asking: What is your definition of selfishness?
- thebean11 6y ago
  > Why does it mean one is selfish, when _a topic_ (not oneself) is more important to oneself than that other person? You care about the topic, they don't want to talk about it for whatever reason. You are trying to get them to do something they don't like, because _you_ like it.
  - zelphirkalt 6y ago
    But that is an assumption right there. Perhaps it is simply an important topic in the context of the moment. It doesn't have to mean one personally likes the topic. There can be a necessity, that one has to discuss this topic.
    - thebean11 6y ago
      This is a hypothetical, importance or non-importance is an assumption either way. I didn't realize importance was assumed here.

darkerside 6y ago

Based on what you've said, I get the same impression. If you want to connect with somebody, don't talk. Listen. Even if you "know" you're right. As stubborn as you think those people are, they have a good case for arguing that you are just as stubborn if not more so.

marvin 6y ago
Most people you'd disagree with generally have a point, if you get past the quick-release talking points. If one tries to have a genuine conversation, it might be surprising to many how much common ground can be found.
dimitrios1 6y ago
Do you hang out with people who just talk all day without a prompt? How do you listen if you don't first ask?
- darkerside 6y ago
  I'm sorry, but I truly don't understand your point here. Do you mind explaining it for me?
- darkerside 6y ago
  I think I get your question now. Honestly, there is an art to it, and you can't always just come out and ask. It exposes that you care more about the information than you do about the person. Maybe bring it up gently the next time it comes up in context. Or, when it's just the two of you, ask if you can bring up a potentially sensitive question with no judgement involved, just to learn.