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I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD diff

I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. > Stimulant drugs do improve the ability (even without ADHD) to focus and pay attention. One function, which is reliably improved by stimulant medications, is sustained attention, or vigilance. Stimulants improve sustained, focused attention, but “selective attention” and “distractibility” may be worsened, possibly because of a drug induced increase in impulsivity. [1] I currently take a small dose (5mg) of Evekeo with only very mild side effects. On 30mg of Adderall XR I felt some euphoria for the first two weeks and the insomnia was pretty bad for the first week or so. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/

aneemzic 6y ago
>I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. I'm sorry but you clearly haven't even tried to research the subject, so I'm not surprised you don't believe it. People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine. There's multiple studies on ADHD and reward pathways you could find with a simple google search. If you understand how amphetamine based stimulants such as adderall work, you'll know these are 2 of the major neurotransmitters that they target along with serotonin. The entire reason for using these types of medications is to improve availability of neurotransmitters to those with abnormal production that impedes cognitive function. Sure people with normal levels can take stimulants and see effects, since these drugs don't balance levels, they just increase them. In a person with normal dopamine production it's just going to lead to an imbalance, and result in the euphoria feeling they're seeking, whether they want to admit it or not. Edit: the article you posted doesn't even support your argument. It seems in people without ADHD, the medication resulted in increased impulsivity and distractibility.Most likely as a result of abnormal levels of norepinephrine. This is evidence of the drug having literally the opposite of it's intended effect when taken by people without ADHD.
- beaugunderson 6y ago
  I have ADHD and am well-read on the subject. The passage I posted applies to both people with and without ADHD. This is another passage from the same paper: > As it remains unclear whether stimulant medication has the same effect on healthy individuals as for those with ADHD, it is possible that many reported effects of prescription stimulants in healthy individuals may stem from placebo effects. If you have a citation that argues that stimulants affect people with and without ADHD differently I’d love to read it.
  - jkaplowitz 6y ago
    The passage you cited in the comment I am currently replying to doesn't say there is no difference. It says that it isn't clear either way. So right now we just have anecdotes until someone cites a study making an assertion either way. Here's my anecdote which runs quite opposite yours: As another person with ADHD who has been prescribed a low dose of Adderall XR in the past, it's always been an unpleasant experience for me, to the extent that the prescription bottle said "as needed for academic work". It did help me focus for a few hours, although whether I focused on the important things or distractions was up to my non-medicinal coping strategies among other factors. Unfortunately, disruptive and uncomfortable side effects lasted far longer than the period of improved focus. Nothing I just described matches my understanding of how neurotypical people enjoy Adderall as a recreational drug.I don't think I've ever once in my life actually wanted to take it or enjoyed the experience, not even on those occasions where I chose to take it (the last of which was almost a decade ago) because of the beneficial effects it was prescribed for.
    - afarviral 6y ago
      Sounds like you just hadnt pushed past the physical side-effects and in to euphoric terratory...not suggesting you try. Just that I know non-adhd people who find stimulant side-effects unpleasant enough to conclude that they dont enjoy them.
- wikibob 6y ago
  This is not true. > People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine Please cite your specific evidence, and make sure it is not studies that do not replicate.
LeonB 6y ago
> I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. Then why do you think stimulant medications were ever approved for adhd treatment? Of course they were work differently for people with and without adhd. For people without adhd the stimulant medications do not treat the adhd. If you try to sort of isolate out that part of it... what are you expecting to find?
- beaugunderson 6y ago
  This is like saying “for people without hypertension blood thinners don’t treat the hypertension”. Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not. To refocus the conversation, the specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true. If there’s a paper that provides evidence for that I’d still love to see it.
  - groo1 6y ago
    > Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not. ADHD patients suffer from hyperfocus and in some cases _need_ stimulants to snap out of this state. It is also about the ability when and which topic to focus on. > specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true This statement is compacted and leaves out some things. I have a bad case of the inattentive adhd variant. With that came that I am really bad at filtering out sensory stimuli of any kind, sound, light, touch. They feel "loud" and prevent me from focusing for example on a conversation with a person. However stimulants increase my ability to tune out these distractions. For me stimulations were such a relieve after over 35 years to not be bombarded with sensory stimuli and finally being able to quieten this noisy mess, that made me a lot calmer - even when I am pausing medication for a few days. So believe what you want, me and others who take the medication are glad for the relieve it provides. However many websites use tropes you mentioned in a way that makes ADHD seem not very credible. It is important to differentiate between medical facts and for example websites that try to make people seek treatment by a healthcare professional. With such deseases often come secondary psychological problems that may cause a suffering person not to seek treatment. So some websites try to break through this barrier.

aneemzic 6y ago

>I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. I'm sorry but you clearly haven't even tried to research the subject, so I'm not surprised you don't believe it. People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine. There's multiple studies on ADHD and reward pathways you could find with a simple google search. If you understand how amphetamine based stimulants such as adderall work, you'll know these are 2 of the major neurotransmitters that they target along with serotonin. The entire reason for using these types of medications is to improve availability of neurotransmitters to those with abnormal production that impedes cognitive function. Sure people with normal levels can take stimulants and see effects, since these drugs don't balance levels, they just increase them. In a person with normal dopamine production it's just going to lead to an imbalance, and result in the euphoria feeling they're seeking, whether they want to admit it or not. Edit: the article you posted doesn't even support your argument. It seems in people without ADHD, the medication resulted in increased impulsivity and distractibility.Most likely as a result of abnormal levels of norepinephrine. This is evidence of the drug having literally the opposite of it's intended effect when taken by people without ADHD.

beaugunderson 6y ago
I have ADHD and am well-read on the subject. The passage I posted applies to both people with and without ADHD. This is another passage from the same paper: > As it remains unclear whether stimulant medication has the same effect on healthy individuals as for those with ADHD, it is possible that many reported effects of prescription stimulants in healthy individuals may stem from placebo effects. If you have a citation that argues that stimulants affect people with and without ADHD differently I’d love to read it.
- jkaplowitz 6y ago
  The passage you cited in the comment I am currently replying to doesn't say there is no difference. It says that it isn't clear either way. So right now we just have anecdotes until someone cites a study making an assertion either way. Here's my anecdote which runs quite opposite yours: As another person with ADHD who has been prescribed a low dose of Adderall XR in the past, it's always been an unpleasant experience for me, to the extent that the prescription bottle said "as needed for academic work". It did help me focus for a few hours, although whether I focused on the important things or distractions was up to my non-medicinal coping strategies among other factors. Unfortunately, disruptive and uncomfortable side effects lasted far longer than the period of improved focus. Nothing I just described matches my understanding of how neurotypical people enjoy Adderall as a recreational drug.I don't think I've ever once in my life actually wanted to take it or enjoyed the experience, not even on those occasions where I chose to take it (the last of which was almost a decade ago) because of the beneficial effects it was prescribed for.
  - afarviral 6y ago
    Sounds like you just hadnt pushed past the physical side-effects and in to euphoric terratory...not suggesting you try. Just that I know non-adhd people who find stimulant side-effects unpleasant enough to conclude that they dont enjoy them.
wikibob 6y ago
This is not true. > People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine Please cite your specific evidence, and make sure it is not studies that do not replicate.

LeonB 6y ago

> I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. Then why do you think stimulant medications were ever approved for adhd treatment? Of course they were work differently for people with and without adhd. For people without adhd the stimulant medications do not treat the adhd. If you try to sort of isolate out that part of it... what are you expecting to find?

beaugunderson 6y ago
This is like saying “for people without hypertension blood thinners don’t treat the hypertension”. Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not. To refocus the conversation, the specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true. If there’s a paper that provides evidence for that I’d still love to see it.
- groo1 6y ago
  > Stimulants will help anyone focus, ADHD diagnosis or not. ADHD patients suffer from hyperfocus and in some cases _need_ stimulants to snap out of this state. It is also about the ability when and which topic to focus on. > specific trope I see again and again is “stimulants will make a person with ADHD calm and a person without ADHD hyper”, which I do not believe is true This statement is compacted and leaves out some things. I have a bad case of the inattentive adhd variant. With that came that I am really bad at filtering out sensory stimuli of any kind, sound, light, touch. They feel "loud" and prevent me from focusing for example on a conversation with a person. However stimulants increase my ability to tune out these distractions. For me stimulations were such a relieve after over 35 years to not be bombarded with sensory stimuli and finally being able to quieten this noisy mess, that made me a lot calmer - even when I am pausing medication for a few days. So believe what you want, me and others who take the medication are glad for the relieve it provides. However many websites use tropes you mentioned in a way that makes ADHD seem not very credible. It is important to differentiate between medical facts and for example websites that try to make people seek treatment by a healthcare professional. With such deseases often come secondary psychological problems that may cause a suffering person not to seek treatment. So some websites try to break through this barrier.