5 ms·

Sounds like you want something different than what he intended. That's his business, not yours =)

by ugh123 6y ago

brundolf 6y ago
Yeah. The problem is I want something different from what seemingly the entire space of game developers is willing to make, even when there are no economics at stake. When I see a little game like this, which clearly came from a place of inspiration and was positioned to break the mold, and then it's still spoiled by just a tiny piece of needless gamification, it's doubly frustrating specifically because it came so close to escaping that trope. I don't mean to come off as demanding - people can make what they want to make - I just feel like sometimes people tack this kind of mechanic onto a game not because it's essential, but because (consciously or subconsciously) they're afraid people won't know what to do with a video game that doesn't give you a dopamine kick in the form of a number going up. Of course I don't know if that was the case here (though I suspect it might be), it's just that this game touches on a much bigger story of exasperation with the world of game design, for me.
- gridspy 6y ago
  So you're objecting to the gamification ... of games? What would your ideal "not-game" look like? Are you sure you wouldn't be happy with a game like Factorio which is basically a perfect sandbox (despite having lots of stats if you go to look at them)?
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Mainly I'm advocating that people explore this design-space more in general. Sandboxes are cool in their own way, but aren't really the same thing For me personally, the specific version of this that I want is a world to explore for exploration's sake, without anything quantifiable to be gained by doing so. The Stanley Parable is a good example of this, if you've heard of it. I use "world" and "explore" very loosely; exploring where you can go and what you can do as the engineer of a train would fall under this umbrella. Even if the answer is "not a whole lot", there's an aliveness and a wondering that comes from even such a tiny slice of a world. But as soon as a performance metric is introduced there's this "should statement" hanging over my head, reshaping the whole experience.
    - gridspy 6y ago
      I can relate. I strongly dislike score tables after levels which imply that my success was not successful enough - that I should now compete with the scores of other people.
      - brundolf 6y ago
        It's all about different kinds of experiences for me. I love certain games that are heavily metrics-based, when that's what I feel like playing. Scoreboards sometimes make those games more fun because you always have a goal to keep chasing after for as long as you want to. The problem is when every game feels the need to have metrics, even when they fly in the face of the rest of the experience. Sometimes I want something different.
- taneq 6y ago
  Sounds like you're after "experiences" - games that cater 100% to explorer types with no fighting, collecting etc. One that springs to mind is Journey (although I haven't played it so I'm not sure if it counts). Flow is another one that might fit. Is that what you're talking about?
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Those are great examples of others, like the OP, that came close but then limited themselves with objectives anyway :)
- renewiltord 6y ago
  This is a classic mechanic for this genre.
- doomlaser 6y ago
  What you're looking for is called a Walking Simulator—no explicit goals or win state. There's a nice niche for them in games like Proteus. I wrote one myself in 2007, before the genre had a name. You are a single pixel just exploring an ultra lo-fi pixel land, to see what you can discover: https://doomlaser.itch.io/standardbits https://doomlaser.itch.io/standardbits There are plenty more on itchio as well: https://itch.io/games/tag-walking-simulator https://itch.io/games/tag-walking-simulator
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Sort of. I played Proteus a little bit and it was definitely along the right lines, though I wouldn't say the genre as a whole is exactly what I mean. Many walking simulators like Dear Esther and Gone Home are pretty linear, where "exploration" mostly means unpacking a specific story in the exact order the developers planned. Some others, like Eidolon, still can't resist putting little collectibles in there.
    - doomlaser 6y ago
      Maybe there should be a genre distinction for truly "walk in the park" or "hike in the woods" style experiences, though even in the woods or at a park you'll often encounter trails or paths, which tend to shape a more linear experience.
- mypalmike 6y ago
  The dev put something beautiful out into the world and this is your take on it.

Sounds like you want something different than what he intended. That's his business, not yours =)

by ugh123 6y ago

Sounds like you want something different than what he intended. That's his business, not yours =)

Yeah. The problem is I want something different from what seemingly the entire space of game developers is willing to make, even when there are no economics at stake. When I see a little game like this, which clearly came from a place of inspiration and was positioned to break the mold, and then it's still spoiled by just a tiny piece of needless gamification, it's doubly frustrating specifically because it came so close to escaping that trope. I don't mean to come off as demanding - people can make what they want to make - I just feel like sometimes people tack this kind of mechanic onto a game not because it's essential, but because (consciously or subconsciously) they're afraid people won't know what to do with a video game that doesn't give you a dopamine kick in the form of a number going up. Of course I don't know if that was the case here (though I suspect it might be), it's just that this game touches on a much bigger story of exasperation with the world of game design, for me.

gridspy 6y ago
So you're objecting to the gamification ... of games? What would your ideal "not-game" look like? Are you sure you wouldn't be happy with a game like Factorio which is basically a perfect sandbox (despite having lots of stats if you go to look at them)?
- brundolf 6y ago
  Mainly I'm advocating that people explore this design-space more in general. Sandboxes are cool in their own way, but aren't really the same thing For me personally, the specific version of this that I want is a world to explore for exploration's sake, without anything quantifiable to be gained by doing so. The Stanley Parable is a good example of this, if you've heard of it. I use "world" and "explore" very loosely; exploring where you can go and what you can do as the engineer of a train would fall under this umbrella. Even if the answer is "not a whole lot", there's an aliveness and a wondering that comes from even such a tiny slice of a world. But as soon as a performance metric is introduced there's this "should statement" hanging over my head, reshaping the whole experience.
  - gridspy 6y ago
    I can relate. I strongly dislike score tables after levels which imply that my success was not successful enough - that I should now compete with the scores of other people.
    - brundolf 6y ago
      It's all about different kinds of experiences for me. I love certain games that are heavily metrics-based, when that's what I feel like playing. Scoreboards sometimes make those games more fun because you always have a goal to keep chasing after for as long as you want to. The problem is when every game feels the need to have metrics, even when they fly in the face of the rest of the experience. Sometimes I want something different.
taneq 6y ago
Sounds like you're after "experiences" - games that cater 100% to explorer types with no fighting, collecting etc. One that springs to mind is Journey (although I haven't played it so I'm not sure if it counts). Flow is another one that might fit. Is that what you're talking about?
- brundolf 6y ago
  Those are great examples of others, like the OP, that came close but then limited themselves with objectives anyway :)
renewiltord 6y ago
This is a classic mechanic for this genre.
doomlaser 6y ago
What you're looking for is called a Walking Simulator—no explicit goals or win state. There's a nice niche for them in games like Proteus. I wrote one myself in 2007, before the genre had a name. You are a single pixel just exploring an ultra lo-fi pixel land, to see what you can discover: https://doomlaser.itch.io/standardbits https://doomlaser.itch.io/standardbits There are plenty more on itchio as well: https://itch.io/games/tag-walking-simulator https://itch.io/games/tag-walking-simulator
- brundolf 6y ago
  Sort of. I played Proteus a little bit and it was definitely along the right lines, though I wouldn't say the genre as a whole is exactly what I mean. Many walking simulators like Dear Esther and Gone Home are pretty linear, where "exploration" mostly means unpacking a specific story in the exact order the developers planned. Some others, like Eidolon, still can't resist putting little collectibles in there.
  - doomlaser 6y ago
    Maybe there should be a genre distinction for truly "walk in the park" or "hike in the woods" style experiences, though even in the woods or at a park you'll often encounter trails or paths, which tend to shape a more linear experience.
mypalmike 6y ago
The dev put something beautiful out into the world and this is your take on it.