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New York City to ban new gas hookups by 2030

2 points by reddotX 6y ago

LatteLazy 6y ago
I remain very unconvinced by measures like this on two levels: First, Why not do it now? Or in 12months? Making promises that rely on future people to fulfil them single handed is the same as doing nothing, just with better PR. Second, I'm really unconvinced electricity can reasonably fulfil the same jobs currently done by gas. I don't think you can run a boiler with the same power. If you do somehow build such a boiler affordably you'll have big issues surge capacity and supply levels.
- yostrovs 6y ago
  You'd also need a lot more power plants, and the city is already dotted with quite a few of them. It's going to be difficult to build more of them.
- yuppie_scum 6y ago
  Have you ever seen how fast an electric induction plate can boil water? It’s wild.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    Your gas boiler does at least 10 times that while the water is flowing through it. Plus the gas is stored and released as needed. To do the same with electric when everyone turns on their showers in the morning is gonna need a lot of power plants that will sit empty the other 22h a day.
    - yongjik 6y ago
      "Keeping a tank of water hot" seems like an ideal use case of smart metering - There's no reason to draw electricity after you wake up, instead of at 4am when everyone's sleeping.
      - LatteLazy 6y ago
        That's great, but you're little apartment now needs to find room for a huge water tank (enough for a few showers and some other uses). And a big noisy pump so your shower is more than a dribble. Plus you need to keep that tank of water hot all the time. You can insulate it, but since the tank has no idea when you'll want to shower (or do washing or whatever) it will need to be hot 24h a day. So you'll need to pull a lot more energy than you did for a simple combi boiler. Plus now your apartment will be warmer, that's great in winter, but in summer you'll need to turn the air con up using even more energy. Again, you can't really pick when these will kick in, so you'll likely use them at the same time everyone else is using them adding to peak load... Gas combi boilers are really efficient and small and quite and clean. I don't get why people are trying to replace them. I honestly think it would be better to require new buildings not have car parking spaces or have triple glazed windows. I just don't think there is a practical way to beat gas in this context. Maybe if we build bathhouses next to substations and people went there to shower? I suspect (cynic that I am) this is more about giving real estate mogals an excuse to save money and downgrade new apartments. "Sorry, you can't have gas so the shower doesn't really work but it's the law so the price is the same and we didn't have to pay for a plumber and a gas hookup!" but that's probably ott...
gbourne 6y ago
Unfortunately, these long timelines slip or the project is abandoned when a new administration comes in. If the next mayor continues the plan, it might have some legs.

2 points by reddotX 6y ago

I remain very unconvinced by measures like this on two levels: First, Why not do it now? Or in 12months? Making promises that rely on future people to fulfil them single handed is the same as doing nothing, just with better PR. Second, I'm really unconvinced electricity can reasonably fulfil the same jobs currently done by gas. I don't think you can run a boiler with the same power. If you do somehow build such a boiler affordably you'll have big issues surge capacity and supply levels.

yostrovs 6y ago
You'd also need a lot more power plants, and the city is already dotted with quite a few of them. It's going to be difficult to build more of them.
yuppie_scum 6y ago
Have you ever seen how fast an electric induction plate can boil water? It’s wild.
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  Your gas boiler does at least 10 times that while the water is flowing through it. Plus the gas is stored and released as needed. To do the same with electric when everyone turns on their showers in the morning is gonna need a lot of power plants that will sit empty the other 22h a day.
  - yongjik 6y ago
    "Keeping a tank of water hot" seems like an ideal use case of smart metering - There's no reason to draw electricity after you wake up, instead of at 4am when everyone's sleeping.
    - LatteLazy 6y ago
      That's great, but you're little apartment now needs to find room for a huge water tank (enough for a few showers and some other uses). And a big noisy pump so your shower is more than a dribble. Plus you need to keep that tank of water hot all the time. You can insulate it, but since the tank has no idea when you'll want to shower (or do washing or whatever) it will need to be hot 24h a day. So you'll need to pull a lot more energy than you did for a simple combi boiler. Plus now your apartment will be warmer, that's great in winter, but in summer you'll need to turn the air con up using even more energy. Again, you can't really pick when these will kick in, so you'll likely use them at the same time everyone else is using them adding to peak load... Gas combi boilers are really efficient and small and quite and clean. I don't get why people are trying to replace them. I honestly think it would be better to require new buildings not have car parking spaces or have triple glazed windows. I just don't think there is a practical way to beat gas in this context. Maybe if we build bathhouses next to substations and people went there to shower? I suspect (cynic that I am) this is more about giving real estate mogals an excuse to save money and downgrade new apartments. "Sorry, you can't have gas so the shower doesn't really work but it's the law so the price is the same and we didn't have to pay for a plumber and a gas hookup!" but that's probably ott...

gbourne 6y ago

Unfortunately, these long timelines slip or the project is abandoned when a new administration comes in. If the next mayor continues the plan, it might have some legs.