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The NVidia model sounds like more hassle than it's worth. Might as well continue buying PCs. If you could afford them before you can probably still afford them.

The NVidia model sounds like more hassle than it's worth. Might as well continue buying PCs. If you could afford them before you can probably still afford them. Latency will be lower and experience will be better (no waiting in a queue). The benefit of Stadia is actually it's simplicity. It's about bringing in new gamers who may have come from console world, but don't have the Steam libraries, etc. I wrote this in another post, but I think Stadia right now is for the game console user who only play 1 or 2 games. This makes for a lot of extra hardware and subscriptions just to play a game you like. Why not just rent the game as a service for as long as you want to play it? When hockey season starts every year I buy the new NHL for $60. Thats $5/mo. Why should i also buy PLaystation plus, and a hardware console just to play the game? it takes 10 minutes from turining on the tv, navigating the menus, getting into the game, finding someone to play online, etc. Chatting with people is really bad UX. Google can make all of this slicker. But the value prop needs to focus on the job at hand: playing a _specific_ game which happens to be your favorite game you play mostly. Thinking of it as some kind of a gaming platform is not the way.

oivey 6y ago
I’m unsure how Nvidia’s approach is worse. On GeForce now you can play games from Steam or Epic, right? Isn’t Stadia the same except you are locked into only Google’s store? That’s pretty significantly worse.
- enos_feedler 6y ago
  I'll repeat what I said: "the value prop needs to focus on the job at hand: playing a _specific_ game which happens to be your favorite game you play mostly. Thinking of it as some kind of a gaming platform is not the way." By considering Steam and Epic, you are already looking at this from the perspective of a platform. I am simply saying Stadia is better if the game you love is already there. NFL Madden is the latest Stadia promo right now. If most of your gaming time is consumed playing Madden, Stadia is probably the way to pay for it.
  - oivey 6y ago
    Madden isn’t available on GeForce Now apparently, but besides that I don’t think you’ve explained why Stadia is better. On Stadia and GeForce Now, you pay a subscription fee and pay for the game. Is it something about the Stadia hardware that makes it better?
    - enos_feedler 6y ago
      Yes. Stadia does not assume you know how to use a gaming PC. Steam and Epic might be fine if you already know what those things are. If you don't, it is far too complex. Billions of people understand the simple app store model that comes with their phone. It's the one stadia uses.
      - oivey 6y ago
        Steam and Epic are literally app stores. I guess you have to link an extra account to use it with GeForce Now? For that minuscule amount of extra friction you get access to a much larger set of games on stores that won’t shut down when Google gets bored in a year or two. edit: in what way does Steam or Epic expect you to understand how to use a “gaming PC”?
        enos_feedler 6y ago
        In the way that those are apps that gamers install on their gaming pc.
        oivey 6y ago
        Can you elaborate? You don’t need to install Steam or the game to play that game on GeForce Now.
        p1necone 6y ago
        You're not making any sense to me. Steam is just an app store. A "gaming PC" is just a regular PC with more powerful hardware in it, using software on it does not take any special skills specific to gaming PCs. And as the other commenter points out, playing steam games via geforce now doesn't even require installing the steam app anyway, it's just an account link.
- KaoruAoiShiho 6y ago
  The UI is worse as you need to make yet another account and pay for steam. That experience is terrible enough to kill the thing for a non-gamer.
  - oivey 6y ago
    It’s maybe a tiny bit worse, but describing it as terrible is a pretty extraordinary stretch. Google is fucked if the entire business model of Stadia, requiring massive investment in hardware, software, and content, depends on consumers being too stupid to link an account between app stores.
    - KaoruAoiShiho 6y ago
      Slightly better UX is the raison d'etre of companies like sony, apple, zoom, slack, etc. It matters a lot.
      - oivey 6y ago
        The level of inconvenience is on the same level as having to log into Gmail on my iPhone. That doesn’t stop me from using Gmail or buying an iPhone. UX matters a lot, but not that much. Steam is free by the way, since I guess I didn’t point that out in my last post. You just have to buy the games, same as Stadia.
        KaoruAoiShiho 6y ago
        Nah, I need to type in my password every single time into steam. My password manager doesn't work. Since I have a very long password, it's almost impossible for me to play GFN.
  - p1necone 6y ago
    Do you really think "non-gamers" are going to be converted by this? At this point if you're a "non-gamer" it isn't for lack of availability. You seem to be using "non-gamer" as a synonym for "too inexperienced to use basic modern technology", which I don't think is a widespread problem outside of age ranges that didn't grow up with the internet. A much bigger group is surely just people that aren't that interested in video games. (Unless you think Stadia is actually going after the geriatric market, which seems short sighted.)
- ehsankia 6y ago
  Nvidia literally throws you in a VM, where you have to log into Steam and use it as a computer. You & I may be gamers or computer users, but normal people don't want to deal with that shit. It also again assumed you have a Steam/Epic account to begin, or else that's another layer you have to deal with. With Stadia, you press one button and you're in the game 5s later. It also has deep integration, allowing friends list, voice chat, game invites, achievements, etc. Nvidia relies on Steam for those (Epic doesn't have most of it). That's just the surface level integration too. By having games integrate with Stadia's API, they can do other kinds of optimizations, like having simple optimized options, compares to Nvidia where you have to mess around with the settings like on PC. If you've used both, it's night and day experience. Again obviously for you and me, we're used to PC gaming, but for average people wanting to play some AAA game, GFN is a complete no-go.
  - drusepth 6y ago
    I've silently listened on Discord to two different friends trying to get GFN working (for Among Us) in the past couple weeks. It's crazy how hard it can apparently be to install and set up for the average person.
    - potatoman22 6y ago
      I just downloaded it, booted it up, signed in, and it launched my game.
      - drusepth 6y ago
        I just asked one of the friends what his problem was and he said that it was just the servers that were down, so I guess it wasn't too hard to set up for him after all.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    > you have to log into Steam and use it as a computer If I recall correctly, you have to do this once, and it can save your log-in details for next time. > You & I may be gamers or computer users, but normal people don't want to deal with that shit. Gamers are their target audience. > By having games integrate with Stadia's API, they can do other kinds of optimizations, like having simple optimized options, compares to Nvidia where you have to mess around with the settings like on PC. That's true. I've found it's sometimes necessary to change the settings, as the default graphical settings are far below what the hardware is capable of handling. I'm sure nVidia could do something about that if they had the will to.
- ThatPlayer 6y ago
  Nvidia has a monthly subscription costs if you don't want the free plan limitations like a queue time and a one hour session limit. Stadia's free plan limitation is only 1080p and stereo instead of 4K resolution, 5.1 surround sound, and HDR. If you're just buying a single game, Stadia comes out ahead on price when you're only paying $60 for the game rather than Geforce Now where you pay $60 for the game and then a monthly fee for every month you're playing.
lmm 6y ago
Google doesn't have a great history when it comes to chat/social functionality.

oivey 6y ago

I’m unsure how Nvidia’s approach is worse. On GeForce now you can play games from Steam or Epic, right? Isn’t Stadia the same except you are locked into only Google’s store? That’s pretty significantly worse.

enos_feedler 6y ago
I'll repeat what I said: "the value prop needs to focus on the job at hand: playing a _specific_ game which happens to be your favorite game you play mostly. Thinking of it as some kind of a gaming platform is not the way." By considering Steam and Epic, you are already looking at this from the perspective of a platform. I am simply saying Stadia is better if the game you love is already there. NFL Madden is the latest Stadia promo right now. If most of your gaming time is consumed playing Madden, Stadia is probably the way to pay for it.
- oivey 6y ago
  Madden isn’t available on GeForce Now apparently, but besides that I don’t think you’ve explained why Stadia is better. On Stadia and GeForce Now, you pay a subscription fee and pay for the game. Is it something about the Stadia hardware that makes it better?
  - enos_feedler 6y ago
    Yes. Stadia does not assume you know how to use a gaming PC. Steam and Epic might be fine if you already know what those things are. If you don't, it is far too complex. Billions of people understand the simple app store model that comes with their phone. It's the one stadia uses.
    - oivey 6y ago
      Steam and Epic are literally app stores. I guess you have to link an extra account to use it with GeForce Now? For that minuscule amount of extra friction you get access to a much larger set of games on stores that won’t shut down when Google gets bored in a year or two. edit: in what way does Steam or Epic expect you to understand how to use a “gaming PC”?
      - enos_feedler 6y ago
        In the way that those are apps that gamers install on their gaming pc.
        oivey 6y ago
        Can you elaborate? You don’t need to install Steam or the game to play that game on GeForce Now.
        p1necone 6y ago
        You're not making any sense to me. Steam is just an app store. A "gaming PC" is just a regular PC with more powerful hardware in it, using software on it does not take any special skills specific to gaming PCs. And as the other commenter points out, playing steam games via geforce now doesn't even require installing the steam app anyway, it's just an account link.
KaoruAoiShiho 6y ago
The UI is worse as you need to make yet another account and pay for steam. That experience is terrible enough to kill the thing for a non-gamer.
- oivey 6y ago
  It’s maybe a tiny bit worse, but describing it as terrible is a pretty extraordinary stretch. Google is fucked if the entire business model of Stadia, requiring massive investment in hardware, software, and content, depends on consumers being too stupid to link an account between app stores.
  - KaoruAoiShiho 6y ago
    Slightly better UX is the raison d'etre of companies like sony, apple, zoom, slack, etc. It matters a lot.
    - oivey 6y ago
      The level of inconvenience is on the same level as having to log into Gmail on my iPhone. That doesn’t stop me from using Gmail or buying an iPhone. UX matters a lot, but not that much. Steam is free by the way, since I guess I didn’t point that out in my last post. You just have to buy the games, same as Stadia.
      - KaoruAoiShiho 6y ago
        Nah, I need to type in my password every single time into steam. My password manager doesn't work. Since I have a very long password, it's almost impossible for me to play GFN.
- p1necone 6y ago
  Do you really think "non-gamers" are going to be converted by this? At this point if you're a "non-gamer" it isn't for lack of availability. You seem to be using "non-gamer" as a synonym for "too inexperienced to use basic modern technology", which I don't think is a widespread problem outside of age ranges that didn't grow up with the internet. A much bigger group is surely just people that aren't that interested in video games. (Unless you think Stadia is actually going after the geriatric market, which seems short sighted.)
ehsankia 6y ago
Nvidia literally throws you in a VM, where you have to log into Steam and use it as a computer. You & I may be gamers or computer users, but normal people don't want to deal with that shit. It also again assumed you have a Steam/Epic account to begin, or else that's another layer you have to deal with. With Stadia, you press one button and you're in the game 5s later. It also has deep integration, allowing friends list, voice chat, game invites, achievements, etc. Nvidia relies on Steam for those (Epic doesn't have most of it). That's just the surface level integration too. By having games integrate with Stadia's API, they can do other kinds of optimizations, like having simple optimized options, compares to Nvidia where you have to mess around with the settings like on PC. If you've used both, it's night and day experience. Again obviously for you and me, we're used to PC gaming, but for average people wanting to play some AAA game, GFN is a complete no-go.
- drusepth 6y ago
  I've silently listened on Discord to two different friends trying to get GFN working (for Among Us) in the past couple weeks. It's crazy how hard it can apparently be to install and set up for the average person.
  - potatoman22 6y ago
    I just downloaded it, booted it up, signed in, and it launched my game.
    - drusepth 6y ago
      I just asked one of the friends what his problem was and he said that it was just the servers that were down, so I guess it wasn't too hard to set up for him after all.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  > you have to log into Steam and use it as a computer If I recall correctly, you have to do this once, and it can save your log-in details for next time. > You & I may be gamers or computer users, but normal people don't want to deal with that shit. Gamers are their target audience. > By having games integrate with Stadia's API, they can do other kinds of optimizations, like having simple optimized options, compares to Nvidia where you have to mess around with the settings like on PC. That's true. I've found it's sometimes necessary to change the settings, as the default graphical settings are far below what the hardware is capable of handling. I'm sure nVidia could do something about that if they had the will to.
ThatPlayer 6y ago
Nvidia has a monthly subscription costs if you don't want the free plan limitations like a queue time and a one hour session limit. Stadia's free plan limitation is only 1080p and stereo instead of 4K resolution, 5.1 surround sound, and HDR. If you're just buying a single game, Stadia comes out ahead on price when you're only paying $60 for the game rather than Geforce Now where you pay $60 for the game and then a monthly fee for every month you're playing.

lmm 6y ago

Google doesn't have a great history when it comes to chat/social functionality.