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> But it makes the site much nicer to participate in ... snip ... To play the devil here... Basically, you need the site to provide you with restraints to ove

> But it makes the site much nicer to participate in ... snip ... To play the devil here... Basically, you need the site to provide you with restraints to overcome your self control problems? > First, I don't feel the need to reply to mean, nasty, or incorrect replies to me unless I have something to add. You never did before. In fact, you shouldn't have. You upvote comments that add to the discussion, and down vote comments that do not add any value. > Second - and I think this is really nice - voting has become less about promoting an argument or viewpoint and more about saying "thanks for this" or "less of this, please" It's always been that way. Or at least, that's how I always approached it. That you weren't doing that before was your problem. > I find myself voting up thoughtful stuff I disagree with more often now, and voting less frequently overall. I find myself voting less frequent as well. Mostly because it serves not real purpose now. Whereas before, I could upvote quality comments, now the only person who sees quality comments is that person. The arguments I see for hiding of the points seem to revolve around solving personal issues people have. Your comment succinctly displays that. Now, let me just say that I don't care whether points are shown or not. That, I believe, is the wrong argument. Rather, comments should be highlighted based on their value relative to other comments under the same post. This means specific points aren't revealed. Highly valued comments are highlighted. People browsing for information get a better understanding of what is valuable and what isn't. Otherwise, what's the value in having a points system? By not using it to display valued comments, it makes having points pointless (honestly, no pun intended). Edit: I want to be clear, I'm being fairly straightforward above. I'm not intending to attack you. If I was too succinct and it came off too harsh, please forgive me. Your comment was a good one, and I don't want you offended by what I wrote. =)

scott_s 15y ago
Basically, you need the site to provide you with restraints to overcome your self control problems? Yes, as do you, me, and everyone else. Although It's not so much a self control problem as it is that we're all susceptible to the same biases.
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  Yes. The point I was trying to get across. =) However, that begs the question then: why bother with display points at all? If they serve no purpose externally, then they don't need to be shown.
lionhearted 15y ago
> Basically, you need the site to provide you with restraints to overcome your self control problems? Hah! Fair question, but I don't think that's it. Here's an actual example - I wrote a detailed comment about the evolution of a certain field and then I linked to resources for people who want to learn more. This guy who is a bit of a knucklehead replies, "This is wrong, you shouldn't get your info from Wikipedia" - actually, he was mistaken and I knew what I was talking about. But if his (incorrect on both counts) comment was voted higher than mine, it would make sense to reply to it to clarify. Another example is when someone mis-summarizes something to put words in your mouth. If it gets voted up by chance a little, it's a self perpetuating thing where it looks accurate. If there's no points, everyone has to evaluate it critically and then, that's fine. Like you say right here, points sort of signal quality. There's an implication that if one comment is at +5 and there's a reply at +15 saying "You're mistaken", then the +15 comment is correct. If someone is being a jerk and incorrect, it's a lot easier to ignore them when they don't have a seemingly-legitimate blessing. > The arguments I see for hiding of the points seem to revolve around solving personal issues people have. ... I want to be clear, I'm being fairly straightforward above. I'm not intending to attack you. If I was too succinct and it came off too harsh, please forgive me. Your comment was a good one, and I don't want you offended by what I wrote. =) No offense, absolutely a valid and good comment. Anyways, I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it's a personal self control thing so much as - 1. People respond to incentives and signals. 2. An incorrect comment that's highly voted up puts out the signal that its correct and authoritative. 3. If someone replies to you and says "you're wrong and an idiot" and there's an external signal that they're correct, there's a very natural incentive to reply to that. 4. Whereas if people are forced to use critical thinking and evaluate comments on their own merits, the external signal is removed, and a lot of the incentive to reply (clearing up that you're not, in fact, wrong and an idiot as apparently signaled by this highly-voted comment) is no longer there. I guess you could spin that as being about personal things, but I don't think that's it - a lot of veteran commentors who are seemingly very self-controlled people (tptacek, patio11, etc) have responded along similar lines. When someone says something nasty and incorrect about you and there's a public signal that it's correct, there's a very natural incentive to reply which is largely removed by this change.
- jasonlotito 15y ago

scott_s 15y ago

Basically, you need the site to provide you with restraints to overcome your self control problems? Yes, as do you, me, and everyone else. Although It's not so much a self control problem as it is that we're all susceptible to the same biases.

jasonlotito 15y ago
Yes. The point I was trying to get across. =) However, that begs the question then: why bother with display points at all? If they serve no purpose externally, then they don't need to be shown.

lionhearted 15y ago

> Basically, you need the site to provide you with restraints to overcome your self control problems? Hah! Fair question, but I don't think that's it. Here's an actual example - I wrote a detailed comment about the evolution of a certain field and then I linked to resources for people who want to learn more. This guy who is a bit of a knucklehead replies, "This is wrong, you shouldn't get your info from Wikipedia" - actually, he was mistaken and I knew what I was talking about. But if his (incorrect on both counts) comment was voted higher than mine, it would make sense to reply to it to clarify. Another example is when someone mis-summarizes something to put words in your mouth. If it gets voted up by chance a little, it's a self perpetuating thing where it looks accurate. If there's no points, everyone has to evaluate it critically and then, that's fine. Like you say right here, points sort of signal quality. There's an implication that if one comment is at +5 and there's a reply at +15 saying "You're mistaken", then the +15 comment is correct. If someone is being a jerk and incorrect, it's a lot easier to ignore them when they don't have a seemingly-legitimate blessing. > The arguments I see for hiding of the points seem to revolve around solving personal issues people have. ... I want to be clear, I'm being fairly straightforward above. I'm not intending to attack you. If I was too succinct and it came off too harsh, please forgive me. Your comment was a good one, and I don't want you offended by what I wrote. =) No offense, absolutely a valid and good comment. Anyways, I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it's a personal self control thing so much as - 1. People respond to incentives and signals. 2. An incorrect comment that's highly voted up puts out the signal that its correct and authoritative. 3. If someone replies to you and says "you're wrong and an idiot" and there's an external signal that they're correct, there's a very natural incentive to reply to that. 4. Whereas if people are forced to use critical thinking and evaluate comments on their own merits, the external signal is removed, and a lot of the incentive to reply (clearing up that you're not, in fact, wrong and an idiot as apparently signaled by this highly-voted comment) is no longer there. I guess you could spin that as being about personal things, but I don't think that's it - a lot of veteran commentors who are seemingly very self-controlled people (tptacek, patio11, etc) have responded along similar lines. When someone says something nasty and incorrect about you and there's a public signal that it's correct, there's a very natural incentive to reply which is largely removed by this change.

jasonlotito 15y ago