5 ms·

Citation needed. Is this with photo-voltaic cells built with dangerous and scarce materials?

by jules 15y ago

holri 15y ago
http://www.taz.de/1/zukunft/umwelt/artikel/1/solarstrom-wird-konkurrenzfaehig/ http://www.taz.de/1/zukunft/umwelt/artikel/1/solarstrom-wird...
- vukk 15y ago
  Taz seems to be a rather leftist newspaper, wouldn't take it at face value.
  - holri 15y ago
    There are citing a study by the bank "Landesbank BW". You can find the same study in other media mentioned. A bank is usually very reputable in calculating economics.
  - lispm 15y ago
    Oh, the fear of 'leftist' newspapers. For the US, pretty much every newspaper in Germany is leftist.
  - woodpanel 15y ago
    You betcha ;-) Even for european standards this is leftist. They do have good articles though as it is usual for ideologists only on topics where the ideology doesn't already provides the answers. Also, the mentioned bank is a state bank. Usually not the moste creditable ones. Especially not on issues that include subsidies.
fgm2r 15y ago
According to [1] photovoltaic energy might be competitive in Germany by 2012/2013 in regions with a lot of sunshine and by 2016 "in regions with less intensive sunshine." (I'm not sure whether "less intensive" means average.) These numbers assume consumer prices and no subsidies. For industry users competitiveness is expected by 2019. Hawaii: already competitive (2009), California: 2011 (assuming 3kW plants) Reuters [2] writes that "very sunny countries could reach that breakeven in five years[2012] or so, and even cloudy Britain by 2020." The breakeven is called Grid Parity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_parity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_parity [1] http://www.wm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fm7/1106/Endbericht%20Branchenanalyse%20Photovoltaik.pdf http://www.wm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fm7/1106/Endbericht%20Br... (German, 2009, this is the report cited by taz.de) [2] http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/19/environment-solar-growth-dc-idUSL1878986220071019 http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/19/environment-solar-... (2007)
- roel_v 15y ago
  This doesn't answer his question, but anyway: it depends on how you account for things. When you take into account the production cost and materials needed for PV, electricity from them is not a sustainable energy source in any non-marketing meaning of the word.
roel_v 15y ago
I think he's mistaken is saying that it'll only come from PV; it's for all forms of 'sustainable' energy (I myself wouldn't count PV under that, but the popular opinion does so I'm including it here). So it's including geothermal, air heat pumps, zero energy use for residential heating (high insulation and heat recuperation in ventilation systems), etc.

Citation needed. Is this with photo-voltaic cells built with dangerous and scarce materials?

by jules 15y ago

Citation needed. Is this with photo-voltaic cells built with dangerous and scarce materials?

holri 15y ago

http://www.taz.de/1/zukunft/umwelt/artikel/1/solarstrom-wird-konkurrenzfaehig/ http://www.taz.de/1/zukunft/umwelt/artikel/1/solarstrom-wird...

vukk 15y ago
Taz seems to be a rather leftist newspaper, wouldn't take it at face value.
- holri 15y ago
  There are citing a study by the bank "Landesbank BW". You can find the same study in other media mentioned. A bank is usually very reputable in calculating economics.
- lispm 15y ago
  Oh, the fear of 'leftist' newspapers. For the US, pretty much every newspaper in Germany is leftist.
- woodpanel 15y ago
  You betcha ;-) Even for european standards this is leftist. They do have good articles though as it is usual for ideologists only on topics where the ideology doesn't already provides the answers. Also, the mentioned bank is a state bank. Usually not the moste creditable ones. Especially not on issues that include subsidies.

fgm2r 15y ago

According to [1] photovoltaic energy might be competitive in Germany by 2012/2013 in regions with a lot of sunshine and by 2016 "in regions with less intensive sunshine." (I'm not sure whether "less intensive" means average.) These numbers assume consumer prices and no subsidies. For industry users competitiveness is expected by 2019. Hawaii: already competitive (2009), California: 2011 (assuming 3kW plants) Reuters [2] writes that "very sunny countries could reach that breakeven in five years[2012] or so, and even cloudy Britain by 2020." The breakeven is called Grid Parity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_parity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_parity [1] http://www.wm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fm7/1106/Endbericht%20Branchenanalyse%20Photovoltaik.pdf http://www.wm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fm7/1106/Endbericht%20Br... (German, 2009, this is the report cited by taz.de) [2] http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/19/environment-solar-growth-dc-idUSL1878986220071019 http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/19/environment-solar-... (2007)

roel_v 15y ago
This doesn't answer his question, but anyway: it depends on how you account for things. When you take into account the production cost and materials needed for PV, electricity from them is not a sustainable energy source in any non-marketing meaning of the word.

roel_v 15y ago

I think he's mistaken is saying that it'll only come from PV; it's for all forms of 'sustainable' energy (I myself wouldn't count PV under that, but the popular opinion does so I'm including it here). So it's including geothermal, air heat pumps, zero energy use for residential heating (high insulation and heat recuperation in ventilation systems), etc.