4 ms·

I'm not going to argue this because I agree in many (most?) cases. But I do think there is value in taking a measured approach to the problem as opposed to ope

I'm not going to argue this because I agree in many (most?) cases. But I do think there is value in taking a measured approach to the problem as opposed to opening the flood gates.

briffle 6y ago
I agree, I see this in many forms: (From IT projects, to dealing with huge homeless problems, to drug crime) We shouldn't do this, because this doesn't 'solve' the problem in 100% of cases. That is how nothing ever gets done. I think we should absolutely hit the low hanging fruit. I mean, a few years ago, Oregon legalized Weed. This last election, they legalized shrooms (in certain clinical settings). Once people see progress being made, they are much more likely to go with the next step.
valuearb 6y ago
The measured approach is a problem too. You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. How can that kill off a dangerous black market? Someone who is going to try heroin is going to try heroin. They can live a mostly long, healthy, productive life if they get clean drugs and needles. Where are they going to get that from decriminalization? An idea I’ve noodled around with is adding drug (and alcohol) consumption as a badge to your drivers license. Every time you go to a drug dispensary you have to show your license. If you get out of line, driving intoxicated, or commit any crimes while drunk or high they take your license until you complete rehab. And if you go too far off the deep end, maybe they keep your badges off your license for a very long time. At least that way we can eliminate all the other crimes the war on drugs helps create.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > The measured approach is a problem too. You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. I don't think this is as big a problem as people make it out to be. In NYC, there is a black market for smuggled cigarettes because of the large taxes on them. Most people buy them from legit places regardless because it's much more convenient. There are high alcohol taxes in Oregon and Washington, yet very little modern bootlegging. People prefer to buy legal alcohol in spite of the fact that moonshine is cheaper. The risks of dealing with illegally manufactured substances are worse than the increased cost of buying from legitimate sources.
- bruckie 6y ago
  > Someone who is going to try heroin is going to try heroin. Tautologically correct, but I think the implication here is that availability doesn't affect whether someone will try heroin. I have a hard time believing that: it seems obvious that on the margin, there are some people who would try heroin if it were easier to get (and wouldn't if it were harder). We can argue about how big that margin is, but it seems hard to argue that it doesn't exist. (Apologies if that's not actually what you were implying.)
  - valuearb 6y ago
    I would argue that n my sling hard drugs illegal leads to more involuntary addictions, because when your favorite drug is mixed with a much harder drug without your knowledge it opens a door you may never wanted opened.
- mythrwy 6y ago
  Wouldn't someone else simply buy the drugs for the suspended person?
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Do people buy alcohol for teenagers? Of course, but a few highly publicized cases of people prosecuted for procuring drugs for an unlicensed friend will help keep it to a minimum.
- pasttense01 6y ago
  "You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. How can that kill off a dangerous black market?" Look at consumer products: generics or store brands are available for all kinds of products yet the substantial majority of sales are for branded products. And here the generics/stores brands are fairly similar to the branded products. But in the illegal drug market you have little idea of the quality of that product--so consumers will pay substantially more for products where they know exactly what they are getting [in this case the legal products].

I'm not going to argue this because I agree in many (most?) cases. But I do think there is value in taking a measured approach to the problem as opposed to opening the flood gates.

briffle 6y ago

I agree, I see this in many forms: (From IT projects, to dealing with huge homeless problems, to drug crime) We shouldn't do this, because this doesn't 'solve' the problem in 100% of cases. That is how nothing ever gets done. I think we should absolutely hit the low hanging fruit. I mean, a few years ago, Oregon legalized Weed. This last election, they legalized shrooms (in certain clinical settings). Once people see progress being made, they are much more likely to go with the next step.

valuearb 6y ago

The measured approach is a problem too. You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. How can that kill off a dangerous black market? Someone who is going to try heroin is going to try heroin. They can live a mostly long, healthy, productive life if they get clean drugs and needles. Where are they going to get that from decriminalization? An idea I’ve noodled around with is adding drug (and alcohol) consumption as a badge to your drivers license. Every time you go to a drug dispensary you have to show your license. If you get out of line, driving intoxicated, or commit any crimes while drunk or high they take your license until you complete rehab. And if you go too far off the deep end, maybe they keep your badges off your license for a very long time. At least that way we can eliminate all the other crimes the war on drugs helps create.

ogre_codes 6y ago
> The measured approach is a problem too. You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. I don't think this is as big a problem as people make it out to be. In NYC, there is a black market for smuggled cigarettes because of the large taxes on them. Most people buy them from legit places regardless because it's much more convenient. There are high alcohol taxes in Oregon and Washington, yet very little modern bootlegging. People prefer to buy legal alcohol in spite of the fact that moonshine is cheaper. The risks of dealing with illegally manufactured substances are worse than the increased cost of buying from legitimate sources.
bruckie 6y ago
> Someone who is going to try heroin is going to try heroin. Tautologically correct, but I think the implication here is that availability doesn't affect whether someone will try heroin. I have a hard time believing that: it seems obvious that on the margin, there are some people who would try heroin if it were easier to get (and wouldn't if it were harder). We can argue about how big that margin is, but it seems hard to argue that it doesn't exist. (Apologies if that's not actually what you were implying.)
- valuearb 6y ago
  I would argue that n my sling hard drugs illegal leads to more involuntary addictions, because when your favorite drug is mixed with a much harder drug without your knowledge it opens a door you may never wanted opened.
mythrwy 6y ago
Wouldn't someone else simply buy the drugs for the suspended person?
- valuearb 6y ago
  Do people buy alcohol for teenagers? Of course, but a few highly publicized cases of people prosecuted for procuring drugs for an unlicensed friend will help keep it to a minimum.
pasttense01 6y ago
"You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. How can that kill off a dangerous black market?" Look at consumer products: generics or store brands are available for all kinds of products yet the substantial majority of sales are for branded products. And here the generics/stores brands are fairly similar to the branded products. But in the illegal drug market you have little idea of the quality of that product--so consumers will pay substantially more for products where they know exactly what they are getting [in this case the legal products].