4 ms·

I used to favor full legalization, but now I think it's a bad idea. If you can simply go to a store to buy heroin (like you can with weed in many places now), I

by notJim 6y ago

I used to favor full legalization, but now I think it's a bad idea. If you can simply go to a store to buy heroin (like you can with weed in many places now), I think we will inevitably have more heroin addicts. People will get addicting just trying it out, and get addicted because they are self-medicating. There are middle-grounds between full legalization and full prohibition. It seems obvious that prohibition has been a failure. I think instead we should base it on how harmful and addictive they are. Drugs with low harm and low addiction potential should be easy to get. Other drugs should be legally obtainable (and manufactured and distributed by legitimate means) by addicts, but hard to get for most people. Sometimes people bring up the case of alcohol, which seems to have relatively high addiction potential and harm, yet is still legal. I think this is a case of path dependence though. I don't know if I would advocate making a similarly harmful drug legal and easily obtainable today, but the cat is out of the bag on that one.

travbrack 6y ago
Don't you think most people who would be interested in buying heroin in the store can already get it?
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  I think oxycontin is an interesting example. A lot of people got (get) "incidentally" addicted, due to overprescription / easy supply. Regulatory failure and corruption didn't help, of course.
- brewdad 6y ago
  Sure, but there's a huge difference between meeting up with "a guy" in secret to buy it versus popping into the shop and picking some up while running errands. There's also an implied suitability in the sense that "stores wouldn't be allowed to sell if it was really that harmful". This may or may not be true but it certainly impacts our cultural mindset around alcohol.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    In looking at the data for pot usage in CO around legalization, the data is mixed. Teen usage rates of pot went down after legalization, while adult usage rates went up. The 2020 data is not yet out from what I could see. Like with all drugs, potentiation will alter the dosage rates of individuals, so data on weight of drug sold needs to be calibrated over time. Though pot and heroin are vastly different drugs in terms of effect and addiction, the pot legalization effects provide some guidance on usage among those that can purchase it legally. Per what little data I could see, it does seems that legalization increases use of the drug. As to what that does towards safety and health, I've no clue and would love it if another HNer could enlighten us. https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+colorado&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=3VA8OEp0xVFvTM%252CzzXORzKHZ-5VGM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQhmhK9U7ZS09Cs7f_F-LXj3hMUIw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin4qegrMruAhXDVs0KHcdUDMgQ9QF6BAgLEAE#imgrc=XmdsUNuiAOLodM https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+col...
- trianglem 6y ago
  Not verified, 100% pure pharmaceutical grade heroin.
  - colecut 6y ago
    This is especially important considering that it seems most overdose deaths are due to it being laced with fentanyl or similar. My brother died this way
    - Balgair 6y ago
      I'm very sorry for your loss.
rm_-rf_slash 6y ago
I’ve thought for a while that “hard” drugs ought to be made available with a license. Every year you check up with your doctor and a mental health specialist, and if things seem to be in order (no physiological damage from drug use, no arrests, no job loss from drug abuse etc) you get your license to buy consumer quantities of cocaine, mushrooms, whatever. I’m sure there are solid arguments against a license structure but I haven’t imagined a better middle ground between total prohibition and 19th century style cocaine in cough syrup.

by notJim 6y ago

travbrack 6y ago

Don't you think most people who would be interested in buying heroin in the store can already get it?

xyzzy123 6y ago
I think oxycontin is an interesting example. A lot of people got (get) "incidentally" addicted, due to overprescription / easy supply. Regulatory failure and corruption didn't help, of course.
brewdad 6y ago
Sure, but there's a huge difference between meeting up with "a guy" in secret to buy it versus popping into the shop and picking some up while running errands. There's also an implied suitability in the sense that "stores wouldn't be allowed to sell if it was really that harmful". This may or may not be true but it certainly impacts our cultural mindset around alcohol.
- Balgair 6y ago
  In looking at the data for pot usage in CO around legalization, the data is mixed. Teen usage rates of pot went down after legalization, while adult usage rates went up. The 2020 data is not yet out from what I could see. Like with all drugs, potentiation will alter the dosage rates of individuals, so data on weight of drug sold needs to be calibrated over time. Though pot and heroin are vastly different drugs in terms of effect and addiction, the pot legalization effects provide some guidance on usage among those that can purchase it legally. Per what little data I could see, it does seems that legalization increases use of the drug. As to what that does towards safety and health, I've no clue and would love it if another HNer could enlighten us. https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+colorado&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=3VA8OEp0xVFvTM%252CzzXORzKHZ-5VGM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQhmhK9U7ZS09Cs7f_F-LXj3hMUIw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin4qegrMruAhXDVs0KHcdUDMgQ9QF6BAgLEAE#imgrc=XmdsUNuiAOLodM https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+col...
trianglem 6y ago
Not verified, 100% pure pharmaceutical grade heroin.
- colecut 6y ago
  This is especially important considering that it seems most overdose deaths are due to it being laced with fentanyl or similar. My brother died this way
  - Balgair 6y ago
    I'm very sorry for your loss.

rm_-rf_slash 6y ago

I’ve thought for a while that “hard” drugs ought to be made available with a license. Every year you check up with your doctor and a mental health specialist, and if things seem to be in order (no physiological damage from drug use, no arrests, no job loss from drug abuse etc) you get your license to buy consumer quantities of cocaine, mushrooms, whatever. I’m sure there are solid arguments against a license structure but I haven’t imagined a better middle ground between total prohibition and 19th century style cocaine in cough syrup.