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I'm a proponent for legalizing drugs. But I believe there will be negative long-term consequences from drug use becoming normalized and so easy to obtain. Peopl

I'm a proponent for legalizing drugs. But I believe there will be negative long-term consequences from drug use becoming normalized and so easy to obtain. People who wouldn't otherwise use drugs could be forgiven (after reading about legalization in the binary and positive way it is often reported, or from walking around a city with an upmarket weed shop every few blocks) for believing it can't be that bad for you and trying it out. I can say from first hand experience with weed that it slows down your cognition and makes you less productive, and it can easily become habitual and hard to stop. I hate to think of how many new addicts we might get if the hard stuff like heroin becomes normalized. I think legalized drugs should come with scarier warnings, like cigarettes, and there should be marketing campaigns against their use, like with alcohol. The primary objective is to not lock people up for drugs, to give them support they need, and to move their sale (to people who are buying them anyway) from the black market to a taxed and regulated one. There should be a secondary objective to not get a whole lot of new people hooked.

potsandpans 6y ago
hard to imagine a take more braindead
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rootusrootus 6y ago
Sure, there will be some consequences. But think about all of the people who won't enter adulthood already excluded from the (good) job market because they have a criminal record? I feel pretty confident that this law is going to be a net positive.
- throwaway2121bx 6y ago
  Full agreement that it's a net positive. Nobody should ever get a criminal record for using. I just hope that the messaging is clear that because its legal/decriminalized doesn't mean its good for you.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    Totally agree. Especially since I have two children rapidly entering that phase of their lives when they will be exposed to the most peer pressure. I hope we take a bunch of the money we'll save on useless enforcement and put it towards education, in addition to rehab and other diversion programs.
tastyfreeze 6y ago
Of the people that wouldn't use drugs there will be some that legality is their only reason for not consuming. But most in the non-consuming group wouldn't consume even if it was legal for a myriad of other reasons. I prefer the warnings to be helpful for informing adults weighing risks in their decision. Scarier warnings like on cigarette packs are a means of forcing personal or governmental ideals on others through fear. Provide all the known facts and let people make their choice.
xyzzy123 6y ago
Yeah I think overall harm minimisation would have to take into account negative externalities. Even if you decriminalised meth, for example, and removed the need for property crime to get it, it could still cause a lot of bad effects for people proximate to the users. People stay awake for days, become irrational and violent. Prolonged use can trigger psychotic episodes. There needs to be a balance between taking into account the safety and freedom of users and the safety and freedom of wider society.
notJim 6y ago
I used to favor full legalization, but now I think it's a bad idea. If you can simply go to a store to buy heroin (like you can with weed in many places now), I think we will inevitably have more heroin addicts. People will get addicting just trying it out, and get addicted because they are self-medicating. There are middle-grounds between full legalization and full prohibition. It seems obvious that prohibition has been a failure. I think instead we should base it on how harmful and addictive they are. Drugs with low harm and low addiction potential should be easy to get. Other drugs should be legally obtainable (and manufactured and distributed by legitimate means) by addicts, but hard to get for most people. Sometimes people bring up the case of alcohol, which seems to have relatively high addiction potential and harm, yet is still legal. I think this is a case of path dependence though. I don't know if I would advocate making a similarly harmful drug legal and easily obtainable today, but the cat is out of the bag on that one.
- travbrack 6y ago
  Don't you think most people who would be interested in buying heroin in the store can already get it?
  - xyzzy123 6y ago
    I think oxycontin is an interesting example. A lot of people got (get) "incidentally" addicted, due to overprescription / easy supply. Regulatory failure and corruption didn't help, of course.
  - brewdad 6y ago
    Sure, but there's a huge difference between meeting up with "a guy" in secret to buy it versus popping into the shop and picking some up while running errands. There's also an implied suitability in the sense that "stores wouldn't be allowed to sell if it was really that harmful". This may or may not be true but it certainly impacts our cultural mindset around alcohol.
    - Balgair 6y ago
      In looking at the data for pot usage in CO around legalization, the data is mixed. Teen usage rates of pot went down after legalization, while adult usage rates went up. The 2020 data is not yet out from what I could see. Like with all drugs, potentiation will alter the dosage rates of individuals, so data on weight of drug sold needs to be calibrated over time. Though pot and heroin are vastly different drugs in terms of effect and addiction, the pot legalization effects provide some guidance on usage among those that can purchase it legally. Per what little data I could see, it does seems that legalization increases use of the drug. As to what that does towards safety and health, I've no clue and would love it if another HNer could enlighten us. https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+colorado&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=3VA8OEp0xVFvTM%252CzzXORzKHZ-5VGM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQhmhK9U7ZS09Cs7f_F-LXj3hMUIw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin4qegrMruAhXDVs0KHcdUDMgQ9QF6BAgLEAE#imgrc=XmdsUNuiAOLodM https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+col...
anm89 6y ago
Drug use is already normalized and drugs are already easy to obtain.
- trianglem 6y ago
  Not that easy. I can get pot, cocaine and possibly MDMA. But heroin and LSD would be hard for me to find with my friend circle.
  - anm89 6y ago
    Agreed. I don't think that would necessarily change for most people under the new setup. On the other hand, if you were the kind of person who had a specific interest in any of those things, I think it is very likely that your friend group would enable you to get them pretty easily. (ie you'd probably have some friends for that purpose)

potsandpans 6y ago

hard to imagine a take more braindead

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rootusrootus 6y ago

Sure, there will be some consequences. But think about all of the people who won't enter adulthood already excluded from the (good) job market because they have a criminal record? I feel pretty confident that this law is going to be a net positive.

throwaway2121bx 6y ago
Full agreement that it's a net positive. Nobody should ever get a criminal record for using. I just hope that the messaging is clear that because its legal/decriminalized doesn't mean its good for you.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  Totally agree. Especially since I have two children rapidly entering that phase of their lives when they will be exposed to the most peer pressure. I hope we take a bunch of the money we'll save on useless enforcement and put it towards education, in addition to rehab and other diversion programs.

tastyfreeze 6y ago

Of the people that wouldn't use drugs there will be some that legality is their only reason for not consuming. But most in the non-consuming group wouldn't consume even if it was legal for a myriad of other reasons. I prefer the warnings to be helpful for informing adults weighing risks in their decision. Scarier warnings like on cigarette packs are a means of forcing personal or governmental ideals on others through fear. Provide all the known facts and let people make their choice.

xyzzy123 6y ago

Yeah I think overall harm minimisation would have to take into account negative externalities. Even if you decriminalised meth, for example, and removed the need for property crime to get it, it could still cause a lot of bad effects for people proximate to the users. People stay awake for days, become irrational and violent. Prolonged use can trigger psychotic episodes. There needs to be a balance between taking into account the safety and freedom of users and the safety and freedom of wider society.

notJim 6y ago

I used to favor full legalization, but now I think it's a bad idea. If you can simply go to a store to buy heroin (like you can with weed in many places now), I think we will inevitably have more heroin addicts. People will get addicting just trying it out, and get addicted because they are self-medicating. There are middle-grounds between full legalization and full prohibition. It seems obvious that prohibition has been a failure. I think instead we should base it on how harmful and addictive they are. Drugs with low harm and low addiction potential should be easy to get. Other drugs should be legally obtainable (and manufactured and distributed by legitimate means) by addicts, but hard to get for most people. Sometimes people bring up the case of alcohol, which seems to have relatively high addiction potential and harm, yet is still legal. I think this is a case of path dependence though. I don't know if I would advocate making a similarly harmful drug legal and easily obtainable today, but the cat is out of the bag on that one.

travbrack 6y ago
Don't you think most people who would be interested in buying heroin in the store can already get it?
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  I think oxycontin is an interesting example. A lot of people got (get) "incidentally" addicted, due to overprescription / easy supply. Regulatory failure and corruption didn't help, of course.
- brewdad 6y ago
  Sure, but there's a huge difference between meeting up with "a guy" in secret to buy it versus popping into the shop and picking some up while running errands. There's also an implied suitability in the sense that "stores wouldn't be allowed to sell if it was really that harmful". This may or may not be true but it certainly impacts our cultural mindset around alcohol.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    In looking at the data for pot usage in CO around legalization, the data is mixed. Teen usage rates of pot went down after legalization, while adult usage rates went up. The 2020 data is not yet out from what I could see. Like with all drugs, potentiation will alter the dosage rates of individuals, so data on weight of drug sold needs to be calibrated over time. Though pot and heroin are vastly different drugs in terms of effect and addiction, the pot legalization effects provide some guidance on usage among those that can purchase it legally. Per what little data I could see, it does seems that legalization increases use of the drug. As to what that does towards safety and health, I've no clue and would love it if another HNer could enlighten us. https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+colorado&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=3VA8OEp0xVFvTM%252CzzXORzKHZ-5VGM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQhmhK9U7ZS09Cs7f_F-LXj3hMUIw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin4qegrMruAhXDVs0KHcdUDMgQ9QF6BAgLEAE#imgrc=XmdsUNuiAOLodM https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+marijuana+usage+in+col...

anm89 6y ago

Drug use is already normalized and drugs are already easy to obtain.

trianglem 6y ago
Not that easy. I can get pot, cocaine and possibly MDMA. But heroin and LSD would be hard for me to find with my friend circle.
- anm89 6y ago
  Agreed. I don't think that would necessarily change for most people under the new setup. On the other hand, if you were the kind of person who had a specific interest in any of those things, I think it is very likely that your friend group would enable you to get them pretty easily. (ie you'd probably have some friends for that purpose)