6 ms·

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies

by kolbe 6y ago

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

blhack 6y ago
I'm curious what metrics we should track to determine if this is good or not.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Does drug use increase? Does crime increase? What impact does it have on the prison population and public health?
  - treeman79 6y ago
    What happens with kids? I adopted a teen who was in the system for 10 years because parents were constantly stoned. Police had to bring kids home from school many times because The bio parents were so out of it.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      I'm not sure putting the parents in prison would fix that or change it much in any way. If parents are stone/ drunk so regularly they shouldn't parent, it's child neglect/ abuse regardless of whether the drugs are legal.
      - munk-a 6y ago
        I think the real solution here is to better empower potential parents to have more freedom to make the choice of whether to become parents or not. If someone doesn't want to become a parent then I think it's a good idea to remove any obstacles between them and avoiding being a parent. Too often that choice is forced on folks and the major impact that has on your life can leave people resentful and angry which just isn't a good place to start being a parent from.
- betenoire 6y ago
  The experiment doesn't have to be on people, it can be on budgets and resources. Tracking whether or not or how many people get help vs punished might be a place to start
imperio59 6y ago
Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let these lobbies profit off the back of addicts and their families and their ruined lives. Unless we as a society take a stand on some of these issues, we will be in deep trouble in a few years.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cammikebrown 6y ago
  The way I think of it is, people will do drugs whether or not they’re legal. The current system is to throw drug users in jail, which has been proven to cost a lot of money and not do anything to rehabilitate the drug user. They need treatment, not jail time. This bill has greatly expanded access to treatment programs, which will help much more than incarceration ever could.
  - cecja 6y ago
    The english and the chinese want a word with you about that opium experiment they had running for a long time over there.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    Well, I mean it's pretty hard to stay using if you're in jail. Yes some contraband does leak in but it's far less available than on the street. So a stretch in jail will very likely have you sober whether you like it or not. It's all the other negative attributes and consequences of prison that are the problem.
  - daenz 6y ago
    Your first sentence isn't necessarily true. Speaking from 1st and 2nd hand experience, there are people who would have experimented with harder drugs if they were easy to obtain.
m463 6y ago
> one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough I kind of agree, but we do have 50 states, each running their own experiments. Massachusetts has right to repair. Nevada has legalized gambling. Some states have stronger employee freedom, some stronger employer freedom. Lots of different educational experiments. Helmet laws, concealed carry, state income tax, no state income tax. Can you pump your own gas?
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  > Can you pump your own gas? Oh stop it, that's not nice. We are slowly, slowly increasing the ability for people to pump their own gas. Right about the time nobody needs to pump gas any more, we will fully legalize it. We also have no sales tax, and I consider that a pretty big plus.
  - m463 6y ago
    So sorry, that was not a jab. I was just listing differences off the top of my head. It does look that way and of course it's not editable now, bleh.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      No worries, I was only mock-offended. We are used to being taunted about the self-service gas law, and everyone I know who lives here would like to see it changed.
cronix 6y ago
I'm curious how will it be different from the experiment that's been going on in Seattle for the last few years? Has hard drug use decreased there? Are there fewer needles on the streets? Fewer people visible in public that are obviously under the influence? Has drug-related crime gone down? Are there more people housed who were previously not housed due to their addiction? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/opinion/sunday/opioid-crisis-drug-seattle.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/opinion/sunday/opioid-cri...

by kolbe 6y ago

blhack 6y ago

I'm curious what metrics we should track to determine if this is good or not.

ogre_codes 6y ago
Does drug use increase? Does crime increase? What impact does it have on the prison population and public health?
- treeman79 6y ago
  What happens with kids? I adopted a teen who was in the system for 10 years because parents were constantly stoned. Police had to bring kids home from school many times because The bio parents were so out of it.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    I'm not sure putting the parents in prison would fix that or change it much in any way. If parents are stone/ drunk so regularly they shouldn't parent, it's child neglect/ abuse regardless of whether the drugs are legal.
    - munk-a 6y ago
      I think the real solution here is to better empower potential parents to have more freedom to make the choice of whether to become parents or not. If someone doesn't want to become a parent then I think it's a good idea to remove any obstacles between them and avoiding being a parent. Too often that choice is forced on folks and the major impact that has on your life can leave people resentful and angry which just isn't a good place to start being a parent from.
betenoire 6y ago
The experiment doesn't have to be on people, it can be on budgets and resources. Tracking whether or not or how many people get help vs punished might be a place to start

imperio59 6y ago

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let these lobbies profit off the back of addicts and their families and their ruined lives. Unless we as a society take a stand on some of these issues, we will be in deep trouble in a few years.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cammikebrown 6y ago
The way I think of it is, people will do drugs whether or not they’re legal. The current system is to throw drug users in jail, which has been proven to cost a lot of money and not do anything to rehabilitate the drug user. They need treatment, not jail time. This bill has greatly expanded access to treatment programs, which will help much more than incarceration ever could.
- cecja 6y ago
  The english and the chinese want a word with you about that opium experiment they had running for a long time over there.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  Well, I mean it's pretty hard to stay using if you're in jail. Yes some contraband does leak in but it's far less available than on the street. So a stretch in jail will very likely have you sober whether you like it or not. It's all the other negative attributes and consequences of prison that are the problem.
- daenz 6y ago
  Your first sentence isn't necessarily true. Speaking from 1st and 2nd hand experience, there are people who would have experimented with harder drugs if they were easy to obtain.

m463 6y ago

> one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough I kind of agree, but we do have 50 states, each running their own experiments. Massachusetts has right to repair. Nevada has legalized gambling. Some states have stronger employee freedom, some stronger employer freedom. Lots of different educational experiments. Helmet laws, concealed carry, state income tax, no state income tax. Can you pump your own gas?

rootusrootus 6y ago
> Can you pump your own gas? Oh stop it, that's not nice. We are slowly, slowly increasing the ability for people to pump their own gas. Right about the time nobody needs to pump gas any more, we will fully legalize it. We also have no sales tax, and I consider that a pretty big plus.
- m463 6y ago
  So sorry, that was not a jab. I was just listing differences off the top of my head. It does look that way and of course it's not editable now, bleh.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    No worries, I was only mock-offended. We are used to being taunted about the self-service gas law, and everyone I know who lives here would like to see it changed.

cronix 6y ago

I'm curious how will it be different from the experiment that's been going on in Seattle for the last few years? Has hard drug use decreased there? Are there fewer needles on the streets? Fewer people visible in public that are obviously under the influence? Has drug-related crime gone down? Are there more people housed who were previously not housed due to their addiction? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/opinion/sunday/opioid-crisis-drug-seattle.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/opinion/sunday/opioid-cri...