4 ms·

"It's just business" (or as you phrase it, "rather simple and commercial") is how US manufacturing outsourced itself, and it's also how Germany became dependent

"It's just business" (or as you phrase it, "rather simple and commercial") is how US manufacturing outsourced itself, and it's also how Germany became dependent upon the largest foreign threat to its region's security.

iSnow 6y ago
"It's just business" is also how the USA got interested in protecting Germany's energy independence against German political decisions right when the USA started to have an abundance of fracking gas. The pipe is still a huge problem as it allows Putin to rule over a rich Russia, but the way the last USA hamfistedly tried to strong-arm German politics didn't do any good to US/German relations.
- avmich 6y ago
  "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." That is, in this case it's so convenient that high goals of protecting democracy align with economical goals of improving exports, it's hard to resist. Pity this "after everything else" keeps painting Americans in a way which limits those same American's goals. It's hard to see behind immediate benefits. Those of us who can and do resist silly temptations, should be supported.
  - iSnow 6y ago
    >It's hard to see behind immediate benefits. Those of us who can and do resist silly temptations, should be supported. Very true, and this is why I am equally skeptical about the German determination to get this through, come hell or high water.
hef19898 6y ago
Well, Germany never had fossil fuel since coal wasn't feasible anymore. And even if, German deposits were too expensive to exploit. It became quite political due too, IMHO: - the US wants to sell fracking gas - the previous US admin wanted to show strength against Russia - it somehow became a controversial topic in Germany - Eastern European countries are afraid, maybe rightly so, that now it would be easier for Russia to cut them off (as they did with Ukraine in the past) as soon as Germany and Western Europe wouldn't be affected anymore Russia, and the USSR before that, pretty much respected contracts. The exception being former Sowjet countries not being part of the EU and NATO. And the conflict between the west and Russia affects Ukraine the worst. These diplomatic aspects, intermingled with economic interests, have been badly handled by Germany. That being said, it wouldn't be the first pipeline through the Baltic Sea. There is already a Nordtream 1.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Could you explain what you mean by that? ..and it's also how Germany became dependent upon the largest foreign threat to its region's security.

iSnow 6y ago

"It's just business" is also how the USA got interested in protecting Germany's energy independence against German political decisions right when the USA started to have an abundance of fracking gas. The pipe is still a huge problem as it allows Putin to rule over a rich Russia, but the way the last USA hamfistedly tried to strong-arm German politics didn't do any good to US/German relations.

avmich 6y ago
"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." That is, in this case it's so convenient that high goals of protecting democracy align with economical goals of improving exports, it's hard to resist. Pity this "after everything else" keeps painting Americans in a way which limits those same American's goals. It's hard to see behind immediate benefits. Those of us who can and do resist silly temptations, should be supported.
- iSnow 6y ago
  >It's hard to see behind immediate benefits. Those of us who can and do resist silly temptations, should be supported. Very true, and this is why I am equally skeptical about the German determination to get this through, come hell or high water.

hef19898 6y ago

Well, Germany never had fossil fuel since coal wasn't feasible anymore. And even if, German deposits were too expensive to exploit. It became quite political due too, IMHO: - the US wants to sell fracking gas - the previous US admin wanted to show strength against Russia - it somehow became a controversial topic in Germany - Eastern European countries are afraid, maybe rightly so, that now it would be easier for Russia to cut them off (as they did with Ukraine in the past) as soon as Germany and Western Europe wouldn't be affected anymore Russia, and the USSR before that, pretty much respected contracts. The exception being former Sowjet countries not being part of the EU and NATO. And the conflict between the west and Russia affects Ukraine the worst. These diplomatic aspects, intermingled with economic interests, have been badly handled by Germany. That being said, it wouldn't be the first pipeline through the Baltic Sea. There is already a Nordtream 1.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Could you explain what you mean by that? ..and it's also how Germany became dependent upon the largest foreign threat to its region's security.