3 ms·

To be honest, this sounds like "stoned-ape theory" tier speculation without evidence, so it's good that it's being downvoted. This sort of thing is honestly sup

To be honest, this sounds like "stoned-ape theory" tier speculation without evidence, so it's good that it's being downvoted. This sort of thing is honestly super annoying. You like to use mushrooms recreationally? Great, do what you want. But when people who are excited about psychedelics start doing this thing that you're doing above, namely trying to say that ancient use of psychedelics was the reason for all manner of cultural practices, it's very annoying, anti-intellectual, it it has honestly soured my opinion of psychedelic-users. For example, it's really hard to take you comment seriously when it contains things like: > Various accounts describe the shaman and the rituals performed in ways that are fascinatingly similar to the narrative of Santa. An all-knowing man who defies space and time? Flying reindeer? Reindeer-drawn sleds? Climbing down the chimney? The giving of gifts? The tales of the Sami shamans have it all. > This partially explains the practice of the Christmas tree, and the placement of bright red-and-white presents underneath, which look like Amanita mushrooms, he wrote. Yeah, except these aspects of Christmas described here are largely American traditions with well documented origins. So even if some (tenuous) parallels between Sami folk religions and modern American Christmas exist, how exactly is it being postulated that those Sami traditions made their way into the US? Scandinavian immigration to the US was quite small in comparison to German, Italian, Irish, etc., and they were rarely ethnically Sami. Meanwhile, as I've said, US Christmas traditions like Santa, Christmas trees, gift giving, the Christmas color scheme and so on have pretty well-identified origins, which are largely from British and Central European traditions, with a modern, more secular, reinterpretation coming about in the 19th and 20th century. Look, I used psychedelics in my younger days. They have many effects, but the strongest one I would say is that they make you think things are far more profound than they really are. I don't doubt that they have potential for treating depression or addiction (recent research on this seems promising), but it seems that far too often, psychedelic-enthusiasts fall into the trap of "psychedelics are so cool, I must find a way to tie each and every thing to them."

sebmellen 6y ago
I share your skepticism and tepid weariness for the sort of over-interested rambling psychedelics can bring on. That said, I think this is a really unique case and deserves more investigation. The number of relational motifs is astounding: - The mycorrhizal relationship between the Amanita Muscaria mushroom and pine trees [1]. This means that the "gifts" of the mushroom would grow underneath the pine tree, much as we place boxes under Christmas trees today. - That reindeer, after consuming Amanita Muscaria mushrooms, urinate a less toxic, yet still psychedelic substance. At the very least, reindeer are quite attracted to Amanita Muscaria mushrooms [2] [3]. - That mushrooms become more potent when dried, and are therefore often dried by hanging them over a fire fireplace, much like the stockings we hang over our fireplaces today. - The myth of the mysterious workshop of elves who produce presents and live at the north pole. (I think it's very clear the relationship elves/dwarves have to psychedelics.) As an anecdotal story, while living and traveling in Europe for a 2 year period, I was stunned at how many Christmas statues and figurines I saw which incorporated the Amanita Muscaria mushroom in some way — from elves sitting on top of the mushroom to the face of St. Nicholas etched into a larger painted wooden mushroom. I also don't know that the origins of Christmas traditions are so well-documented as you claim. Christmas is a rather messy amalgamation of pagan folklore, Christian mythology and religion, and other interspersed and aberrant traditions (take Zwarte Piet, for example). With a large grain of salt and acknowledging the probably biased nature of the publication, I would point you to this article for a bit more in-depth exploration of this topic http://entheology.com/research/when-santa-was-a-mushroom-amanita-muscaria-and-the-origins-of-christmas/ http://entheology.com/research/when-santa-was-a-mushroom-ama.... I could go on, but I don't want to devote too much writing to something that's unlikely to be read (given it's a late response). Some other links: - https://psychedelicgospels.com/santa-siberian-reindeer-shaman/ https://psychedelicgospels.com/santa-siberian-reindeer-shama... - https://www.samwoolfe.com/2013/08/is-santa-claus-myth-based-on-magic.html https://www.samwoolfe.com/2013/08/is-santa-claus-myth-based-... - https://www.gaia.com/article/the-story-of-santa-claus-might-come-from-mushroom-eating-shamans https://www.gaia.com/article/the-story-of-santa-claus-might-... ———————————————— [1]: https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fungi-and-lichens/fly-agaric/ https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fu... [2]: https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/meet-the-animals-that-self-medicate https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/meet-the-anima... [3]: https://www.dailygrail.com/2012/09/taking-the-pss-did-shamans-really-drink-reindeer-urine/ https://www.dailygrail.com/2012/09/taking-the-pss-did-shaman...

sebmellen 6y ago

I share your skepticism and tepid weariness for the sort of over-interested rambling psychedelics can bring on. That said, I think this is a really unique case and deserves more investigation. The number of relational motifs is astounding: - The mycorrhizal relationship between the Amanita Muscaria mushroom and pine trees [1]. This means that the "gifts" of the mushroom would grow underneath the pine tree, much as we place boxes under Christmas trees today. - That reindeer, after consuming Amanita Muscaria mushrooms, urinate a less toxic, yet still psychedelic substance. At the very least, reindeer are quite attracted to Amanita Muscaria mushrooms [2] [3]. - That mushrooms become more potent when dried, and are therefore often dried by hanging them over a fire fireplace, much like the stockings we hang over our fireplaces today. - The myth of the mysterious workshop of elves who produce presents and live at the north pole. (I think it's very clear the relationship elves/dwarves have to psychedelics.) As an anecdotal story, while living and traveling in Europe for a 2 year period, I was stunned at how many Christmas statues and figurines I saw which incorporated the Amanita Muscaria mushroom in some way — from elves sitting on top of the mushroom to the face of St. Nicholas etched into a larger painted wooden mushroom. I also don't know that the origins of Christmas traditions are so well-documented as you claim. Christmas is a rather messy amalgamation of pagan folklore, Christian mythology and religion, and other interspersed and aberrant traditions (take Zwarte Piet, for example). With a large grain of salt and acknowledging the probably biased nature of the publication, I would point you to this article for a bit more in-depth exploration of this topic http://entheology.com/research/when-santa-was-a-mushroom-amanita-muscaria-and-the-origins-of-christmas/ http://entheology.com/research/when-santa-was-a-mushroom-ama.... I could go on, but I don't want to devote too much writing to something that's unlikely to be read (given it's a late response). Some other links: - https://psychedelicgospels.com/santa-siberian-reindeer-shaman/ https://psychedelicgospels.com/santa-siberian-reindeer-shama... - https://www.samwoolfe.com/2013/08/is-santa-claus-myth-based-on-magic.html https://www.samwoolfe.com/2013/08/is-santa-claus-myth-based-... - https://www.gaia.com/article/the-story-of-santa-claus-might-come-from-mushroom-eating-shamans https://www.gaia.com/article/the-story-of-santa-claus-might-... ———————————————— [1]: https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fungi-and-lichens/fly-agaric/ https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fu... [2]: https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/meet-the-animals-that-self-medicate https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/meet-the-anima... [3]: https://www.dailygrail.com/2012/09/taking-the-pss-did-shamans-really-drink-reindeer-urine/ https://www.dailygrail.com/2012/09/taking-the-pss-did-shaman...