7 ms·

Why countries with 'loose', rule-breaking cultures have been hit harder by Covid

13 points by johnny_reilly 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago
It's not really just about following rules, IMHO. For example, in general English people follow rules much better than Chinese. With Covid, suddenly a bunch of new rules has been pushed onto people and these rules have curtailed individual liberty for the benefit of the whole group. Here, crucially, cultures that are more inclined to understand and accept this have fared much better then those where people people tend to see "their rights" as absolute and non-negotiable.
- jjgreen 6y ago
  Indeed, try pushing-in to a queue in the UK to see how "loose" things are here.
  - ThePadawan 6y ago
    Indeed, you will get many tuts indeed (and still be in front).
    - jjgreen 6y ago
      Not in a night-club queue, or a late-night chicken shop you won't. Possibly at a Tesco.
- donpott 6y ago
  Yeah, so one would expect the divide to be between collectivist vs individualistic societies.
- npwr 6y ago
  > these rules have curtailed individual liberty for the benefit of the whole group. This is certainly varying over countries and debatable.
sradman 6y ago
The article is written by Michele J. Gelfand [1]: > a cultural psychologist, best known for being an expert on tightness–looseness theory, which explains variations in the strength of social norms and punishments across human groups. The Lancet published the associated paper The relationship between cultural tightness–looseness and COVID-19 cases and deaths: a global analysis [2]. Singapore and Taiwan are interesting cases because of their proximity and connectedness to the initial outbreak in Wuhan. Comparing the Anglo FiveEyes seems appropriate as well but many of the differences tend to be technical (e.g. geography) rather than social. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_J._Gelfand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_J._Gelfand [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30301-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5...
antman 6y ago
Just see the results of Switzerland vs Greece and this article looks like a fruitless brainstorming session. It is pretty evident that all comes down to the political vs medical mentality in governments' decision making rather than individuals.
- netsharc 6y ago
  It seems you're basing your (glib?) conclusions on your stereotypes of the 2 countries you cited. IMO Switzerland is more individualistic than what you assume, hey they even have the federal system and refused to be part of other kingdoms, or even to join international institutions like the EU. If this random URL I found is to be trusted, in Greece there's more of a community sense: https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/greece,switzerland/ https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/greece,...
  - antman 6y ago
    I think you are mixing individualistic/community vs rulebreaking/lawabiding. Having a personal experience of both in terms of rule breaking stereotypes are a great proxy in a level incomprehensible for those unaquainted. Let me point out that I am not saying I am in favor of one over the other and I am familiar with their historical courses that made them so. Not really a matter of DNA as UK tabloids would imply.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
qu-everything 6y ago
but muh freedom /s
- leokennis 6y ago
  Not sure of your point. In 2022 I will live in a COVID-free society with civil liberties; a billion Chinese will live in a COVID-free society without.
N1H1L 6y ago
India has a far lower per capita incidence than most Western countries, even a place like Germany for example. And anybody who has been to India won't classify its culture as rule-following.
dolmen 6y ago
Island do better (TW, NZ) as controlling frontiers is easier. But the article starts by comparing Japan and Mexico. :(
- jfengel 6y ago
  The UK isn't doing so great, despite being an island. Neither is the US, which is in many ways an island: it has only two neighbors and the borders are largely shut. We're not getting our COVID from Mexico or Canada. Being an island will help if you're following the rules (especially compared to countries with unruly neighbors). But not if you're just going to keep reinfecting each other.

13 points by johnny_reilly 6y ago

It's not really just about following rules, IMHO. For example, in general English people follow rules much better than Chinese. With Covid, suddenly a bunch of new rules has been pushed onto people and these rules have curtailed individual liberty for the benefit of the whole group. Here, crucially, cultures that are more inclined to understand and accept this have fared much better then those where people people tend to see "their rights" as absolute and non-negotiable.

jjgreen 6y ago
Indeed, try pushing-in to a queue in the UK to see how "loose" things are here.
- ThePadawan 6y ago
  Indeed, you will get many tuts indeed (and still be in front).
  - jjgreen 6y ago
    Not in a night-club queue, or a late-night chicken shop you won't. Possibly at a Tesco.
donpott 6y ago
Yeah, so one would expect the divide to be between collectivist vs individualistic societies.
npwr 6y ago
> these rules have curtailed individual liberty for the benefit of the whole group. This is certainly varying over countries and debatable.

sradman 6y ago

The article is written by Michele J. Gelfand [1]: > a cultural psychologist, best known for being an expert on tightness–looseness theory, which explains variations in the strength of social norms and punishments across human groups. The Lancet published the associated paper The relationship between cultural tightness–looseness and COVID-19 cases and deaths: a global analysis [2]. Singapore and Taiwan are interesting cases because of their proximity and connectedness to the initial outbreak in Wuhan. Comparing the Anglo FiveEyes seems appropriate as well but many of the differences tend to be technical (e.g. geography) rather than social. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_J._Gelfand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_J._Gelfand [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30301-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5...

antman 6y ago

Just see the results of Switzerland vs Greece and this article looks like a fruitless brainstorming session. It is pretty evident that all comes down to the political vs medical mentality in governments' decision making rather than individuals.

netsharc 6y ago
It seems you're basing your (glib?) conclusions on your stereotypes of the 2 countries you cited. IMO Switzerland is more individualistic than what you assume, hey they even have the federal system and refused to be part of other kingdoms, or even to join international institutions like the EU. If this random URL I found is to be trusted, in Greece there's more of a community sense: https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/greece,switzerland/ https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/greece,...
- antman 6y ago
  I think you are mixing individualistic/community vs rulebreaking/lawabiding. Having a personal experience of both in terms of rule breaking stereotypes are a great proxy in a level incomprehensible for those unaquainted. Let me point out that I am not saying I am in favor of one over the other and I am familiar with their historical courses that made them so. Not really a matter of DNA as UK tabloids would imply.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

qu-everything 6y ago

but muh freedom /s

leokennis 6y ago
Not sure of your point. In 2022 I will live in a COVID-free society with civil liberties; a billion Chinese will live in a COVID-free society without.

N1H1L 6y ago

India has a far lower per capita incidence than most Western countries, even a place like Germany for example. And anybody who has been to India won't classify its culture as rule-following.

dolmen 6y ago

Island do better (TW, NZ) as controlling frontiers is easier. But the article starts by comparing Japan and Mexico. :(

jfengel 6y ago
The UK isn't doing so great, despite being an island. Neither is the US, which is in many ways an island: it has only two neighbors and the borders are largely shut. We're not getting our COVID from Mexico or Canada. Being an island will help if you're following the rules (especially compared to countries with unruly neighbors). But not if you're just going to keep reinfecting each other.