6 ms·
Heuristics might work for longer text where the sample is large enough to uniquely identify the language, but for single words there is not enough information.
by Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Heuristics might work for longer text where the sample is large enough to uniquely identify the language, but for single words there is not enough information. If I write "coin" in my text, for example, am I using an English word, French word, or Irish word? The pronunciation varies drastically, and screenreaders have to know what to say.
- mlyle 6y agoHumans need to know what to read, though, too, right? Obviously humans are a bit better at contextual clues, but.. the information has to be there for a human user to make the distinction.
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoSure. A quoted foreign word might (but not always) appear in some context where any reader will know how to read it. However, for the time being, computers won't, and a screenreader won't manage without adequate semantic tagging.
- contravariant 6y agoWell if 'readable by a human' would be enough for screen readers then we wouldn't have to worry about accessibility surely?
- mlyle 6y agoSure. But computers spotting foreign words in context similarly to how humans do is a lot more likely than getting most foreign words appropriately semantically tagged.
- microtherion 6y agoMy go to anecdote on this is when I returned to Switzerland after several years in the US and walked by a bakery displaying a sign advertising a "Pain Surprise". If anybody ever opens an S&M themed bakery, the problem will be accentuated.
- StavrosK 6y agoOh that bakery has a gimmick where they throw a loaf of bread at your face when you enter.
- eternalban 6y agoNot strictly S&M :) but fresh out of the oven Sangak bread of Iran can offer a "pain surprise" followed by culinary pleasure! Picking those hot pebbles off the back of the flatbread on the way home in the morning is a cherished memory of my childhood in Iran.
- nkoren 6y agoForwarding this to a friend of mine who owns a BDSM-themed coffeeshop...
- amadsen 6y agoMy vision is good and I also don't know if the word you quoted was supposed to be in English, French of Irish? The point being, a screen reader has no more or less information than a human reader. It might be better then to invest effort in improving language inference heuristics, which would help in all applications (pdf documents, text files) than to try to build in support in each underlying protocol.
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoPDF actually has support for language tagging, and using it is a recommended part of any guide to accessibility for the visually impaired. It may be that the language which a quoted foreign-language word is meant to read in was mentioned far back in the text. Human sighted readers will know how to read it, but computers won't yet (and perhaps won't for many years if not decades). However, there are visually impaired people now who need to be guaranteed the same Gemini experience as sighted users.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- progval 6y agoBut the screen reader needs to say the word, and the pronounciation of "coin" isn't the same in every language. I don't know about Irish, but it's radically different between French and English, the only sound in common is the "k". This means that if the screenreader picks the wrong language, then the user has to guess the spelling from the way it's pronounced to understand the text. Though I'll concede that right now on the web it isn't much better; but that's a failing of publishing tools, not the format.
- Snarwin 6y agoSeems like the simplest fix is to allow the user to ask the screen reader how a word is spelled.
- GoblinSlayer 6y agoNot unthinkable that's how a human will read foreign language too.
- wwn_se 6y agoHow would a user not using a screen reader know?
- detaro 6y agoThe difference is that the screen reader has to pick a pronounciation which could be wrong, a sighted user reading matches on the letters. Mentally matching from a wrongly-spoken word is harder.
- fckthisguy 6y agoIn multilingual text, a foreign word/phrase/snippet is often shown between << and >>. Not always, but often enough that it's an informal standard.