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Distribution of persons, water quality, presence of tiki bars – those are all equally scientific properties. Humans work with maps (or abstractions) they unders

by ugh 15y ago

Distribution of persons, water quality, presence of tiki bars – those are all equally scientific properties. Humans work with maps (or abstractions) they understand: All just a question of definitions. No matter how accurate the description of neuron firings is, it will not touch upon what it is like to tuck one's child into bed at night. Great strawman! I don’t think anyone ever claimed that.

brudgers 15y ago
It's not a strawman, because any meaningful claim of isomorphism between computers and brains depend upon there being a mappings between computer states and brain states, i.e. such claims rely upon Turing equivalency. Unless one continues to make up definitions as one goes along. Incidentally, the claim that the distribution of Tiki Bars is normally a component of the scientific definitions of "beach" is the most patently absurd use you have made of a sophomoric definition strategy so far in this discussion.
- ugh 15y ago
  So when you say "describing" you don't actually mean "describing", you mean "running the simulation"? That's alright then, but still leaves you with an entirely unjustified conclusion. As to your second point, you brought Tiki bars up. I don't think Tiki bars feature prominently in the definitions of beaches in the scientific literature but that doesn't really matter. What matters is that the distribution of Tiki bars (and other properties they might have) is accessible to the scientific method. You can't claim that your definition of "beach" which apparently includes Tiki bars is not accessible to science (at least with the examples you gave for extending the definition).
  - brudgers 15y ago
    >So when you say "describing" you don't actually mean "describing", you mean "running the simulation" I mean absolutely nothing of the sort. What I am talking about is the ordinary use of the word "beach" in the ordinary grammar of the English language not its use in some game in which one attempts to translate ordinary terms with "scientific" propositions based a set of logical transformations which ignore the implications of context and connotation. So long as one insists that the computer simulation is isomorphic to what it simulates, one is doomed to stay in the cave.
    - ugh 15y ago
      You are funny.
      - adrianN 15y ago
        I found it to be quite useless to talk about the philosophy of mind to people on the internet. Either its a circle jerk because you already have the same oppinions, or you waste time talking about different things while calling each other retarded.

by ugh 15y ago

brudgers 15y ago

It's not a strawman, because any meaningful claim of isomorphism between computers and brains depend upon there being a mappings between computer states and brain states, i.e. such claims rely upon Turing equivalency. Unless one continues to make up definitions as one goes along. Incidentally, the claim that the distribution of Tiki Bars is normally a component of the scientific definitions of "beach" is the most patently absurd use you have made of a sophomoric definition strategy so far in this discussion.

ugh 15y ago
So when you say "describing" you don't actually mean "describing", you mean "running the simulation"? That's alright then, but still leaves you with an entirely unjustified conclusion. As to your second point, you brought Tiki bars up. I don't think Tiki bars feature prominently in the definitions of beaches in the scientific literature but that doesn't really matter. What matters is that the distribution of Tiki bars (and other properties they might have) is accessible to the scientific method. You can't claim that your definition of "beach" which apparently includes Tiki bars is not accessible to science (at least with the examples you gave for extending the definition).
- brudgers 15y ago
  >So when you say "describing" you don't actually mean "describing", you mean "running the simulation" I mean absolutely nothing of the sort. What I am talking about is the ordinary use of the word "beach" in the ordinary grammar of the English language not its use in some game in which one attempts to translate ordinary terms with "scientific" propositions based a set of logical transformations which ignore the implications of context and connotation. So long as one insists that the computer simulation is isomorphic to what it simulates, one is doomed to stay in the cave.
  - ugh 15y ago
    You are funny.
    - adrianN 15y ago
      I found it to be quite useless to talk about the philosophy of mind to people on the internet. Either its a circle jerk because you already have the same oppinions, or you waste time talking about different things while calling each other retarded.