13 ms·
Military seizes control in Myanmar
- faitswulff 6y agoTangential, but apparently at least one Signal user was logged out overnight and is unable to log back in due to a cellular outage: https://twitter.com/the_ayeminthant/status/1356064981712691200?s=21 https://twitter.com/the_ayeminthant/status/13560649817126912... Seems like a major weakness if your local government can somehow just log you out of your secure messaging platform.
- deathgrips 6y agoYes, quite dumb of Signal to stop working when "The internet is in and out and my sim card no longer works"
- faitswulff 6y agoThere’s a difference between “not working” and “my device’s authentication token was revoked.” She notes that WhatsApp continues to work.
- deathgrips 6y agoThat's as good a sign as any that you shouldn't be using Whatsapp.
- faitswulff 6y ago...yes, that is a perfectly normal conclusion to draw.
- deathgrips 6y agoTo spell it out, if whatsapp were considered a threat they'd block it just like they block Signal.
- lmm 6y agoNot necessarily. It could be that whatsapp is popular enough that blocking it would increase the risk to this regime more than not blocking it.
- dang 6y agoWe've banned this account for flamewar. That's not ok regardless of which side you're flaming for. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25986226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25986226.
- bumpkinjunkie 6y agoHow would that happen?
- faitswulff 6y agoI’m not sure. For the record, it could just be a bug or an unexpected edge case, not necessarily a specific government intervention, but regardless it does seem more fragile than it should be considering Signal’s ethos.
- aaron695 6y agoFor the military to have done that on purpose they would have to have had external help with planing. It's to high level. So I'd assume accidentally with something about the cell phones changing making Signal and Telegraph want to re-authenticate. Or the person has cleared their phone for obvious reasons which also logged them out.
- napier 6y agoNot sure if this is relevant but the Tatmadaw are majority owners of Mytel, which has one of the largest networks in subscriber base and hardware infrastructure. They never really gave up control of Myanmar in a strategic sense.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 6y agoDid Signal give solid reasoning for disallowing accounts and usage without an attached cell phone number? (I assume the question comes up frequently, but I don't know the answer)
- joering2 6y agoI got $10 verizon prepaid and set up my whatsapp and signal that way.
- soohyung 6y agoUnfortunately in many countries even prepaid SIM cards are directly tied to government ID verification. I know this has been discussed many times, but I agree that it would be nice to be able to use Signal for secure communications without a phone number.
- fy20 6y agoI find it interesting that Germany is one country which does this. A country which has strict privacy regulations and people prefer to use cash rather than cards, but they are happy to carry a device which can track their every movement and is tied to their government identification. This isn't an EU thing, there are quite a few EU countries where you can buy and activate a SIM without any ID. Have there been any cases where the people have spoken out against such regulations, and they have been reversed?
- koheripbal 6y agoThe history of terrorists using pre-paid SIMs/phones for both coordination and remote bomb detonation has necessitated this.
- fy20 6y agoThat seems kind of silly given you can easily buy a SIM card from eBay for another country that doesn't have such requirements.
- a012 6y agoI wonder what caused force log out in the first place? I have a Signal account logged in and then SIM card was removed from the phone, and Signal still works (of course I'm not in MMR).
- saurik 6y agoThis one person--with no people responding "also me!"--says they were logged out of multiple services in different jurisdictions at once, so while the underlying issue of a login mechanism somehow tied to SMS access is certainly an issue, I personally, so far as makes sense from this one data point, find it unlikely that this had anything to do with the coup.
- faitswulff 6y agoThis is a very valid point.
- ffpip 6y agoIf you're logged into at least one device with telegram, the sign in code for the a device first comes to the logged in device, instead of coming via SMS. The 6 digit code comes from a verified 'Telegram' account over the internet, thus avoiding the security or connectivity issues of SMS.
- aaomidi 6y agoYes but if soemone else interfere sms they can effectively reset the account
- joecot 6y agoReminder that while apps like signal are more convenient for every day use, if you want to have a way to message certain people when communications are being blocked, you should setup Briar[1] with your friend group. It connects over Tor when you have internet access, but can also pass messages ad hoc over WiFi or bluetooth, so that messages can be distributed across a group. 1. https://briarproject.org/ https://briarproject.org/
- brokenkebab 6y agoThere should be a really wide (geographically), and at the same time not too sparse network of Briar users for sending messages with it to make sense practically.
- subhro 6y agoThis seems very much like APRS wrapped in encryption, no?
- antman 6y agoDisaster radio through LORA https://disaster.radio/learn/hardware/ https://disaster.radio/learn/hardware/ 15 to 30 euros for hardware, 20 for antenna, 10 to 95 km range. Also https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com/ https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com/
- majewsky 6y agoSince there is no obvious disclaimer on the page, I'll add one here for good measure: In most jurisdictions, broadcasting on long-range frequency bands is not permitted without a license. I absolutely encourage people to get involved in this topic, but don't forget to check your local regulations.
- antman 6y agoRegarding regulations LORA tries to address that problem, from Wikipedia: LoRa uses license-free sub-gigahertz radio frequency bands like 433 MHz, 868 MHz (Europe), 915 MHz (Australia and North America), 865 MHz to 867 MHz (India) and 923 MHz (Asia).
- Melting_Harps 6y agoThis is why using multiple burner SMS accounts from various countries, I understand why most apps use filters of known SMS numbers but this is why this can be a pretty big deal. Sometimes you can get logged out going from wifi to LTE/mobile data on either of those apps, I have had that happen, and this can create issues like this which means you will have to create another account and may not have your contact list etc... which is impossible if you're trying to use your mobile number you use. It's kind of crazy that all of our over-paranoid back ups and ad-hoc solutions have been so damn necessary for even the normal person in the last 10 years, be it PgP, burner sms numbers, cryptocurrency, apps like TG and Signal etc... As some have mentioned Moxie said he wants to move away from phone based accounts, and now that Elon sent him a ton of new users from all walks of Life that this may need to be accelerated, which from what I garnered from his podcast with JR it's just not well staffed and is in need of some your guys' talents.
- digianarchist 6y agoIt’s difficult to get burner SMS numbers and also to activate a SIM from abroad. Some eBay traders will sell activated SIMs but you are essentially trusting a third party.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago> It’s difficult to get burner SMS numbers and also to activate a SIM from abroad. Agreed, to an extent. But not if you know how to do the legwork; I have 4 active Telegram/Signal accounts on sveral devices using apps that allowed me to register and acquire a US/EU based mobile number. I completely lost al ofl those passwords and access to those old numbers (didn't use them after activation years ago) but it certainly is possible if you do the legwork.
- tluyben2 6y agoThreema does not have this issue. If it would be free it would be a better choice as it does not need a mobile number. For people in the west the cost is so low but still many refuse because it 'should be free'.
- swarnie_ 6y agoIts Burma, the guy is lucky to have electricity and a phone signal in the first place...
- BlackLotus89 6y agoOK I'm really confused why no one points out that signal allow you to block registration over your number. If you are afraid of government interferance and too lazy to usw xmpp/Matrix why wouldn't you configure at least signal securely?
- clcuc 6y agoRelated: [0]: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/16/myanmar-democracy-rohingya/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/16/myanmar-democracy-rohin... [1]: https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-02/militaerputsch-myanmar-festnahme-regierungschefin-wahlbetrugsvorwuerfe https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-02/militaerputsch-m... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/world/asia/myanmar-coup-aung-san-suu-kyi.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/world/asia/myanmar-coup-a... [3]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-alarmed-by-reports-of-military-actions-in-myanmar-white-house-says-11612145833?mod=hp_lead_pos2 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-alarmed-by-reports-of-mi... [4]: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-01-31/myanmar-military-coup https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-01-31/myanma... [5]: https://ctee.com.tw/news/global/411523.html https://ctee.com.tw/news/global/411523.html
- everybodyknows 6y agoFrom [0], dated January 16, 2020: >Aung San Suu Kyi could not have ordered the military to stop their operations against the Rohingya, and it was legitimate to fear that the military would reverse the transition toward democracy ... Now we see just how little control she had over the generals.
- refurb 6y agoYou're quoting the first part of that article, but ignoring the entire conclusion - she was a willing enabler of the genocide. "But now that the military establishment has moved to accommodate the Burmese pro-democracy movements in the country, oppression of so-called Muslim foreigners like the supposedly Bengali Rohingya is perfectly acceptable along the path toward building an exclusionary Buddhist nation-state."
- apsec112 6y agoThis coup shows how meaningless that "accommodation" really was - no major break with military policy would have been tolerated anyway.
- 6y ago
- KLexpat 6y agoDespite what western media outlets say, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Military juntas are often a good/restorative part of government in countries like Thailand and Myanmar, and are well received by the general public. Doesn't mesh well with washington kissinger pastiche though
- apsec112 6y agoThe public voted overwhelmingly in favor of Aung San Suu Kyi and against the military in the most recent elections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Myanmar_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Myanmar_general_election
- deathgrips 6y agoIs this the same general public that endorses genocide against Muslims?
- nightcereal 6y agoPlease don't speak again unless you thoroughly know what you are talking about when it comes to politics. I am a Burmese and Aung San Suu Kyi has never been racist. In fact, her former advisor, Ko Ni, who was a Muslim as well spoke out against the Myanmar nationality law drafted by the militay junta that prevented Rohingya of Burmese citizenship and he got assassinated. This isn't the only one, there have been other bombings, death threats, kidnapping and assassinations by the military since Aung San Suu Kyi's party won. If you were to visit Myanmar and ask anyone, be it from a racial minority group or literally anyone, they will speak in favor of her.
- aeturnum 6y agoI don't know that human rights can create good government, but it seems pretty reliable that societies without strong human rights protections will turn into a weird pyramid scheme for someone and then collapse in relatively short order.
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoThe military’s power over Myanmar hasn't collapsed in a half-century. (Even during the ostensible moves towards democracy in recent years, the military still called all the shots.) They seem to have established a pretty solid dictatorship. Also, the creation of a new capital at Naypyidaw, in the middle of nowhere, is said to have been an attempt at making the regime impervious to any large-scale public protests.
- jussij 6y agoI suspect the problem for Myanmar is not their past but their future. This link gives some insight into how they are going as a country and it is not flattering reading: http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p102401/mobile/ch04s03.html http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p102401/mobile... What conclusion can be drawn, then, regarding Myanmar’s growth experience from independence in 1948 up to the end of the 1990s? If we wish to be unkind, we can say that Myanmar is a subsistence agricultural economy, relying on a few commodities, with a pre-industrial economic structure, which has no shock absorbers to cushion the impact of events originating within and outside the country. Natural and human-made disasters, therefore, windfalls from the bounty of nature and commodity booms that resulted from such events as the Korean War largely determined the state of the economy, rather than factors such as the GDI/GDP ratio. Such unkind views can, however, no longer hold with the official data for Myanmar’s economic performance coming into the new millennium. In biblical times, it was possible for a country’s economy to enjoy seven fat years in a row and then to suffer seven lean years in a row. Not anymore! Global warming, a growing menace, has brought with it climate change that has made weather volatile and erratic. There is no way a country can expect to have seven consecutive years of good harvests in the twenty-first century. That was written back in 2005 and it looks like their GDP predictions have turned out to be correct with a big drop in their GDP since 2005. https://tradingeconomics.com/myanmar/gdp-growth-annual https://tradingeconomics.com/myanmar/gdp-growth-annual
- Causality1 6y agoIt's easy to look at them from our perspective and think "you're so small, shouldn't you be peaceful and united in order to face the larger world around you?" but we're just as prone to the same type of thinking.
- Clewza313 6y agoMyanmar has a population of over 50 million, and has been in various stages of civil war continuously since the end of WW2. The army's primary public justification for ruling the country is precisely the need to keep a tight grip on the misnamed "Union of Myanmar" and prevent all the various rebel groups from spiraling off.
- koheripbal 6y ago...hence the conflict with the Rohingya people in the North, and the various population control programs across the North.
- Clewza313 6y agoSad but not surprising. And unlike previous coups, there's no obvious way to protest: they've plowed an estimated $4 billion into building a brand new capital in the middle of nowhere, far from any people who could protest, and it looks like this investment is going to pay off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naypyidaw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naypyidaw https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/myanmar/articles/naypyidaw-myanmar-ghost-city/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/myanmar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C19EhJitGrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C19EhJitGrU
- deathgrips 6y agoThe third largest city is in the middle of nowhere?
- Clewza313 6y agoThere was literally nothing except an obscure village or two when construction started in 2002, and the official population figure of 900,000 is widely regarded as preposterous. (The video I linked to above guesses 100k tops.)
- jcranmer 6y agoI took a look at the satellite images. It's a bit hard for me to gauge what the entire area that is supposed to comprise 900k people is, but the official numbers for Pyinmana (inside the capital district but not the capital itself) is about ~100-200k, and Pyinmana is visibly more dense than the city of Naypyidaw itself. In contrast to Brasilia (which is perhaps the most well-known recent-ish create-a-new-capital-from-scratch initiative), it is far less dense and less occupied. Contrasting to most of the other newer similarly-situated capitals, Naypyidaw is clearly pretty poorly populated and some of its infrastructure is laughably oversized compared to what use it would actually get (Why do you need that road with 10 lanes in each direction? It goes from nowhere to nowhere...).
- Clewza313 6y ago
- slopey 6y agow
- underseacables 6y agoHere we go again. Very sad.
- rmm 6y agoShortly after ASSK first got released, I went across as part of a trade group to help the country look at their mining laws (untouched territory). It was a shambles. Military is making way too much as it stands. Peasants working with cyanide, dumping into rivers. Absolute disaster
- clcuc 6y agoProbably lead too? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368
- loofatoofa 6y agoStrangely, I discovered the horrors of myanmar mining through tiktok. The sight and scale of 400000 people mining jade in very dangerous conditions is unimaginable https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/02/landslide-myanmar-jade-mine-kills-least-123-people-government-rescue-workers-say/5362598002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/02/landsl...
- riffraff 6y agoThanks for sharing this, Global Witness appears to have a pretty wonderful page on the topic[0]. It reminds me of the images of the Serra Pelada miners in Powaqqatsi[1], which is 20+ years old. It's sad to see how little progress we've made, in some ways. [0] https://www.globalwitness.org/en/all-countries-and-regions/myanmar/ https://www.globalwitness.org/en/all-countries-and-regions/m... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOdhKYj8Bc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOdhKYj8Bc
- koheripbal 6y agoThey have a very close relationship with North Korea and host knowledge sharing meetings with them. They are trying to model their dictatorship after NK.
- freeburma 6y agoI am in Yangon, Myanmar now, if anyone has any questions. All Internet and TV, phone service, cut off. However fiber internet land lines are still working. Most ATMs are still working but very long lines. Soldiers and tanks in many parts of city. City hall if full of soldiers.
- nocoder 6y agoHow do you feel about this situation? What has been your personal experience living in Myanmar all this while? How do you see this situation playing out?
- freeburma 6y agoI feel sad for the people of Myanmar. I feel sad for Aung San Suu Kyi and all freedom fighters who have sacrificed their whole life and family to better Myanmar. My personal experience is Myanmar is a wonderful country full of a wonderful people, and vibrant culture, despite living in the shadow of ethnic violence and a brutal military regime. It’s hard to say how this will play out. For many here it’s a mystery why military did this, as they already had power over state business, 25% military appointed legislature, control of courts, etc. and the benefit of hiding behind fake democracy to get foreign investment. So people are confused as to what their motive is, as they already had the best of both worlds.
- bredren 6y ago>While failures to reform the country can be considered by many to be at the disadvantage of NLD, in a more cynical reading, it might actually be to the party’s advantage. Ironically, it helps to convince the people that there are still influential dark forces (read: the military) that deter the party from reforming the country. [1] Do you believe that your consideration of the previous military power is widely understood and that the above quote explains the success of the NLD in the election? Do you feel San Suu Kyi has been prevented from acting to protect ethnic minorities due to the influence of the military? If so, is there reason to believe the military would perceive the beyond landslide victory in favor of the NLP as Likely to disrupt or erode their existing position of power? [1] https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/myanmar-shattered-hopes-for-peace/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/myanmar-shattered-hopes-for-...
- brundolf 6y agoI'm 28 years old. In the time I've been aware of world events, it's felt like the world has been accelerating in a downward spiral towards authoritarianism and away from progress. Things are worse in some places than others, but seemingly no corner of the globe is spared from the trend. I genuinely can't tell how much of this perceived trend is real, and how much of it is a shift in my own perspective. And even then: am I just becoming more aware of how the world has always been, or is an increase in media sensationalism to blame (either for my perspective shift, or for an actual shifting reality?) Does it all come down to the impact of social media, or other technologies enabling oppressors? Is it the increasing concentration of global wealth? Was the latter half of the 20th century just an anomaly where much of the world was turned off to authoritarianism by the second world war, and we're at a point now where that's worn off and we're getting back on with the normal trajectory? Was it just my American information bubble telling me that things were ever somewhat better, even for a few decades? I don't know what to think, but what it feels like is that this train is going off the rails.
- axguscbklp 6y agoFor most of the second half of the 20th century, the USSR existed, China was (as it still is) authoritarian, and the US supported authoritarian regimes in places like South Korea, Indonesia, Iran, and Chile. US-supported regimes killed something like a million people between 1950-1990. Then the 1990s came and the USSR collapsed, liberating Eastern Europe. Also, the US pulled back a bit from its support of the worst sort of authoritarians. So there were reasons to be hopeful during the 1990s. I'd say that on the whole, if there was an anomaly it was more the 1990s specifically than any of the time from 1950-1990. I think the world in general is still less authoritarian on average than it was between 1950-1990.
- brundolf 6y agoI have a similar impression of the 90s, though I've been skeptical of it since that happened to also be my childhood
- alisonatwork 6y ago
- computing 6y agomeh. she's been less than ideal on the Rohingya issue.
- freeburma 6y ago- ASSK has no power over military operations or Rohingya. Elected civilian government has no legal power over military. - Only outcome of not defending military at UN would be sanctions or civilian government losing some of the little power they have, which would only harm situation more. - ASSK does not want genocide or anything like that. She is slandered by ignorant press.
- pmontra 6y ago> ASSK does not want genocide or anything like that. She is slandered by ignorant press. Isn't failure to educate international press still a (big IMHO) failure? Personally the result for me has been that she was once a kind of freedom hero, than became a kind of mass murderer and should have her Nobel prize revoked. Then I read today that she's been almost a hostage of the military for all this time and she's getting some of my sympathy back again. However the trade she accepted to do feels bad and the signaling of being a hostage was totally missing.
- freeburma 6y agoCurrying favor with international press at expense of relations with military doesn’t help her party’s situation, or the people of Burma. What is she supposed to do? Come out and denounce the military publicly, effectivey destroying what little relationship and understanding they’ve built with the military? That doesn’t accomplish anything. She already did that and sat in prison for 15 years. Nobel peace prizes and moralizing westerners don’t help Burma. There’s little reason for her to care about what they think. She’s been public about her strategy. She’s always said the only way forward is to build understanding and relationship with military. To work with the scraps given to them. To work through peaceful means. It’s either that or nothing. Rising up won’t really work, they tried that in 1988 and the military just murdered and jailed people until they stopped.
- hbarka 6y agoThe military is alleging that voter fraud took place. Obviously a pretext by Myanmar’s dictatorial military family, but it makes you wonder if Trump’s demagoguery and erosion of trust in the US voting system has emboldened authoritarians across the globe who can now scoff at the integrity of democratic norms, seeing that one of the greatest examples (supposedly) in the free world is not even capable of being such an example. The power of our example has global ramifications.
- koheripbal 6y agoI find it hubris to try to tie every political outcome globally to the US. We are not the center of the world in the minds of people abroad. Myanmar has been a quasi-dictatorship for decades.
- hbarka 6y agoCan you tell me where it was stated that every political outcome globally is tied to the US? A bit of a strawman. Many regimes that have been dictatorial for decades have fallen. It’s easy to name them. South Korea is a particularly good example where its history is marked by alternating periods of democratic and autocratic rule and now they are a stable and wealthy democratic country. The last few years in Myanmar was a hopeful surprise as they made inroads towards a constitutional democracy, albeit with a lingering junta in the shadows. That did not happen without international pressure. The world is different today, where events are seen worldwide in an instant and movements are inspired in an instant. Many countries expressed shock at what happened on Jan 6 and the four years of isolationism preceding. It will be harder today to call out Myanmar for what the autocrats are doing. The reply will be scorn about our hypocrisy. The madmen are stepping out of the shadows of shame.
- darkhorse13 6y ago>Can you tell me where it was stated that every political outcome globally is tied to the US? A bit of a strawman. Where you specifically implied that Trump's actions emboldened the authoritarians that seized power in Myanmar. As someone who lives in this part of the world (close to Myanmar), your comments are a bit silly and self-centered.
- deathgrips 6y agoTest
- torgian 6y agoWell, guess it's time to roll out the ol' sanctions.
- koheripbal 6y agoMyanmar is already sanctioned from all but humanitarian aid.
- altacc 6y agoTheir claimed reasoning for seizing control is "election fraud". Sound familiar? This is why many of us internationals get concerned about American politics, because where America goes, others soon follow. Just like some countries used the "war on terror" branding to suppress democratic movements, it was only a matter of time before other authoritarians used "election fraud" to overthrow election results they didn't like. In Myanmar's case the junta's fraud issue is more likely to be that they didn't rig the system enough to their liking.
- rendall 6y agoIndeed. Trump's attack on the integrity of the 2020 election was irresponsible, as was the Democrats' on the 2016 election. I don't think Americans generally understand how fragile legitimacy is, and how important it is Russian diplomat turns meeting to support Belarus into an attack on Estonia "...After representatives had expressed concern for the situation in Belarus one after another and Estonian Minister of Foreign Affairs Urmas Reinsalu proposed the creation of an international mechanism for investigating crimes against peaceful protesters in the country, it was the turn of the Russian representative. "...Polyanskiy went on to say that claiming that a country's elections saw bias and fraud is not a rare occasion, giving the example of presidential elections in the U.S. Polyanskiy asked why potential election fraud in America is not a subject of discussion and referred to different treatment of elections in USA and Belarus as garish double standards. "'Is there a list of bad countries somewhere regarding which colleagues in the West silently support anti-government actions and protests and 'good' ones where the powers that be are always in the right? Why are you paying exaggerated attention to such phenomena only in certain countries, while ignoring them in France, UK, Germany and, as it happens, also Estonia?' Polyanskiy asked." https://news.err.ee/1608084259/russian-diplomat-turns-meeting-to-support-belarus-into-an-attack-on-estonia https://news.err.ee/1608084259/russian-diplomat-turns-meetin...
- rendall 6y agoI assume the downvotes are from people who think one of the tribes attacking the legitimacy of the Office of President was justified while that of the other was reckless.
- GizmoSwan 6y agoThe west backed Aung San Suu Kyi painting her as human rights icon but her governance induced new ethnic and class conflicts. The imbalance of power does not seem to be correcting itself no matter who is in power because that country is being driven by external agenda as well ethnic and class conflict.
- kyawzazaw 6y agoHer governance didn't induce any new conflicts. 5 years just wasn't enough to resolve decades-long ones while sabotaged by the military.
- GizmoSwan 6y agoIts more than that. She does not have the skill or the ability and they are all aware of her weaknesses. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/23/aung-san-suu-kyi-fall-from-grace-myanmar https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/23/aung-san-suu-k...
- kyawzazaw 6y agoThat's not true at all. Where do you live? You are quoting an article which has flawed view points of a couple of people, almost all foreigners without a vested interest and much skin in the game.. And in 2018.
- robin21 6y agoWhat would happen if the US just invaded and wiped out the military? Would there be an insurgency? Would they be able to train a local and loyal military force to protect democracy? I guess it would end up like Iraq all over again. Local military leaders would just become terrorist leaders. However because they are mostly Buddhist it feels like it would be harder for them to attract jihadists. And the Muslims are the ones being persecuted. After all the money we spent on Iraq and Afghanistan, it seems like it would have been better spent liberating a country like this once and for all. Funny to think how the reaction would be to a Biden government going to war with a tiny military dictatorship. Would people protest it and on what grounds? Could a modern day colonialism work? With modern liberal ideals of the US it seems like it would be dramatically different from times past. US would just setup and defend a constitution and ensure fair elections and provide military. Minus the exploitation this time. PS. Not seriously advocating for any of this, just interesting to think about. — Also, I think we take it so much for granted that the most powerful military in the world who could easily take control of the whole country overnight is 100% loyal to a civilian elected by the people. I wonder how much free choice people have in this scenario anyway. It would seem obvious to blame the military leaders and their soldiers who are the ones who enable all this. But how much does a regular soldier rely upon his salary to survive.
- calavera99 6y agoHonest question. You really still believe we're invading places to bring democracy?
- robin21 6y agoI know it’s easy to be cynical and that there will always be any number of reasons why it’s in the self interest of the US, but I do believe that the Bush doctrine of spreading freedom was something that many in the cabinet believed in their hearts. One has to admit that it is probably one of the most difficult things to do, many have tried throughout history and failed. Look at WW2 as a great example of the US’s inaction and disinterest in upholding its values causing huge amount of destruction and casualties. In terms of net benefit in the long run from the Iraq war, it doesn’t look great right now. But there are many things that were done wrong that led to the insurgency. I bought the line of it’s only for oil/power/stock-prices for a long time, but I don’t believe that is a great enough sole motivation for a bunch of men who were already rich and powerful. People care about legacy - and if you can say you ejected a life long dictator as president it’s a pretty great legacy - unless an unexpected insurgency cancelled that out.