4 ms·

Wait... how could Greeks not be considered white? I’m afraid to ask, but what would a “white” European consider the race of Greeks to be?

sudosysgen 6y ago
Depends on the place and the person, but some certainly are racist against Greeks.
marcelluspye 6y ago
I'm pretty sure these racial categories are American abstractions, whose names have only reflected their composition in recent decades. The Irish, for instance, were long not considered 'white'; they were just 'Irish'.
- irrational 6y ago
  So, white and off-white (I.e., lesser whites)?
  - rayiner 6y ago
    And white-adjacent.
peferron 6y ago
I live in the US, but was born and raised in France and Greeks are considered white there. If the 1998 football team described as "black-blanc-beur" had included players of Greek descent (and maybe it did?), they would have been part of the "blancs", just like Youri Djorkaeff. Take what you read with a grain of salt. I'm certainly very skeptical of the implied claim that Germans wouldn't consider Greeks as white. Note that being considered white doesn't preclude Greeks from being discriminated against, just like some people discriminate against e.g. white Poles.
selimthegrim 6y ago
Greeks, like Armenians in USA are kind of a tossup case, see for example the YA novel "The Westing Game" where a black character compares themselves to a Greek with darker skin
yorwba 6y ago
The point is that Germans are not in the habit of classifying people by race unless they're racist, and even then they don't tend to think in terms of Whites vs Blacks. For Nazis, it's about Aryans vs Jews, where the "Aryan race" is considered to consist of tall, blond, blue-eyed people. Most Greeks would not be considered Aryan, as would most Germans, for that matter. I find it quite telling that you are surprised Greeks might be considered anything but white, while not showing any surprise about Turks. I don't think there's any difference in skin color, so that confirms my suspicion that "whiteness" isn't just about looks.
- peferron 6y ago
  > I find it quite telling that you are surprised Greeks might be considered anything but white, while not showing any surprise about Turks. I don't think there's any difference in skin color, so that confirms my suspicion that "whiteness" isn't just about looks. There are many more people of Greek descent than of Turkish descent in the USA. It's very possible that the person you replied to is simply not familiar enough with people of Turkish descent to express surprise at your claim.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Depends on the place and the person, but some certainly are racist against Greeks.

marcelluspye 6y ago

I'm pretty sure these racial categories are American abstractions, whose names have only reflected their composition in recent decades. The Irish, for instance, were long not considered 'white'; they were just 'Irish'.

irrational 6y ago
So, white and off-white (I.e., lesser whites)?
- rayiner 6y ago
  And white-adjacent.

peferron 6y ago

I live in the US, but was born and raised in France and Greeks are considered white there. If the 1998 football team described as "black-blanc-beur" had included players of Greek descent (and maybe it did?), they would have been part of the "blancs", just like Youri Djorkaeff. Take what you read with a grain of salt. I'm certainly very skeptical of the implied claim that Germans wouldn't consider Greeks as white. Note that being considered white doesn't preclude Greeks from being discriminated against, just like some people discriminate against e.g. white Poles.

selimthegrim 6y ago

Greeks, like Armenians in USA are kind of a tossup case, see for example the YA novel "The Westing Game" where a black character compares themselves to a Greek with darker skin

yorwba 6y ago

The point is that Germans are not in the habit of classifying people by race unless they're racist, and even then they don't tend to think in terms of Whites vs Blacks. For Nazis, it's about Aryans vs Jews, where the "Aryan race" is considered to consist of tall, blond, blue-eyed people. Most Greeks would not be considered Aryan, as would most Germans, for that matter. I find it quite telling that you are surprised Greeks might be considered anything but white, while not showing any surprise about Turks. I don't think there's any difference in skin color, so that confirms my suspicion that "whiteness" isn't just about looks.

peferron 6y ago
> I find it quite telling that you are surprised Greeks might be considered anything but white, while not showing any surprise about Turks. I don't think there's any difference in skin color, so that confirms my suspicion that "whiteness" isn't just about looks. There are many more people of Greek descent than of Turkish descent in the USA. It's very possible that the person you replied to is simply not familiar enough with people of Turkish descent to express surprise at your claim.