6 ms·

We just really like that stock.

by vga805 6y ago

BoorishBears 6y ago
And the hedge funds making billions off that sentiment do as well of course, Citadel must be blushing at the runaway success of RH right now
- nimchimpsky 6y ago
  Citadel is just a marketmaker that rh uses, they could switch all their flow to a different mm (who are doign the other 40% of flow already) easily. They don't own it.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    Who said anything about ownership besides you? You think they can't profit off their access to RH's order flow during a high volatility event like this? This is exactly what they pay for, to make maddening amounts of money off dumb money pouring in.
- briefcomment 6y ago
  Edit: This is probably wrong. The funny thing is that the money Citadel makes off of Robinhood is basically front running RH trades. If those trades are for GME, Citadel has to choose between: - getting their front running revenue while increasing the price and making things worse for shorts (which I'm sure Melvin still has, despite their PR) - foregoing their RH revenue to not exacerbate the situation for shorts Pick your poison.
  - astrange 6y ago
    Citadel Securities is not the same company as Citadel. And I don’t see why either of them should care about someone else’s shorts.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      I hate to be pedantic, but they're both part of Citadel LLC. So yeah, they're the same company. They just happen to be two different businesses within the same company.
  - smabie 6y ago
    Citadel is not front running trades. This isn't how PFOF works. People say this over and over again, but it just shows that they have little to no understanding of how a market maker operates. Which is fine, everyone is uninformed about some things. Except if you know nothing about something, you shouldn't post naive statements that you claim as factual, when they are in fact not.
    - briefcomment 6y ago
      You’re right that a lot of people say this. And not just random people, but people with large audiences, and people who presumably have some expertise. What is Robinhood’s relationship with Citadel then?
      - tedunangst 6y ago
        Not sure what the founder of barstool sports actual experience is in this area. Or whoever else. Also, it's very easy to describe order flow in a disingenuous way (citadel sees the order before the market) that's technically true and will make people think it's front running. Did the experts say front running? Or did they say paid for orders and somebody else said front running?
        briefcomment 6y ago
        Here's AOC discussing it https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/aoc-returns-to-twitch-tonight-to-speak-out-on-robinhood-and-gamestop/ar-BB1dbydg https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/aoc-returns-to-twitch-... And here's a Vice article about it. They don't mention front running, but the outcome sounds the same, in that the customers are not paying the best price for the stock, since the middle man pockets some. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpnz5/robinhoods-customers-are-hedge-funds-like-citadel-its-users-are-the-product https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpnz5/robinhoods-customers-... Also, thread. Can't speak for the expertise of the author, but at least he links to several articles in the comments. https://twitter.com/toxic/status/1353890772135813121 https://twitter.com/toxic/status/1353890772135813121 This guy describes it as front running. https://mobile.twitter.com/anyaparampil/status/1355984104525869057 https://mobile.twitter.com/anyaparampil/status/1355984104525...
  - tomp 6y ago
    I explained my understanding of Citadel and market-making here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25942593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25942593
    - briefcomment 6y ago
      Sounds like RH is required to ensure the Best Price for customers, but they were fined last month by the SEC for not doing that. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-321 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-321
      - tomp 6y ago
        Interesting, I didn't realize that. I was explaining my understanding of what's legal, but in light of this your claims seem to have merit!

We just really like that stock.

by vga805 6y ago

We just really like that stock.

And the hedge funds making billions off that sentiment do as well of course, Citadel must be blushing at the runaway success of RH right now

nimchimpsky 6y ago
Citadel is just a marketmaker that rh uses, they could switch all their flow to a different mm (who are doign the other 40% of flow already) easily. They don't own it.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Who said anything about ownership besides you? You think they can't profit off their access to RH's order flow during a high volatility event like this? This is exactly what they pay for, to make maddening amounts of money off dumb money pouring in.
briefcomment 6y ago
Edit: This is probably wrong. The funny thing is that the money Citadel makes off of Robinhood is basically front running RH trades. If those trades are for GME, Citadel has to choose between: - getting their front running revenue while increasing the price and making things worse for shorts (which I'm sure Melvin still has, despite their PR) - foregoing their RH revenue to not exacerbate the situation for shorts Pick your poison.
- astrange 6y ago
  Citadel Securities is not the same company as Citadel. And I don’t see why either of them should care about someone else’s shorts.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    I hate to be pedantic, but they're both part of Citadel LLC. So yeah, they're the same company. They just happen to be two different businesses within the same company.
- smabie 6y ago
  Citadel is not front running trades. This isn't how PFOF works. People say this over and over again, but it just shows that they have little to no understanding of how a market maker operates. Which is fine, everyone is uninformed about some things. Except if you know nothing about something, you shouldn't post naive statements that you claim as factual, when they are in fact not.
  - briefcomment 6y ago
    You’re right that a lot of people say this. And not just random people, but people with large audiences, and people who presumably have some expertise. What is Robinhood’s relationship with Citadel then?
    - tedunangst 6y ago
      Not sure what the founder of barstool sports actual experience is in this area. Or whoever else. Also, it's very easy to describe order flow in a disingenuous way (citadel sees the order before the market) that's technically true and will make people think it's front running. Did the experts say front running? Or did they say paid for orders and somebody else said front running?
      - briefcomment 6y ago
        Here's AOC discussing it https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/aoc-returns-to-twitch-tonight-to-speak-out-on-robinhood-and-gamestop/ar-BB1dbydg https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/aoc-returns-to-twitch-... And here's a Vice article about it. They don't mention front running, but the outcome sounds the same, in that the customers are not paying the best price for the stock, since the middle man pockets some. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpnz5/robinhoods-customers-are-hedge-funds-like-citadel-its-users-are-the-product https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpnz5/robinhoods-customers-... Also, thread. Can't speak for the expertise of the author, but at least he links to several articles in the comments. https://twitter.com/toxic/status/1353890772135813121 https://twitter.com/toxic/status/1353890772135813121 This guy describes it as front running. https://mobile.twitter.com/anyaparampil/status/1355984104525869057 https://mobile.twitter.com/anyaparampil/status/1355984104525...
- tomp 6y ago
  I explained my understanding of Citadel and market-making here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25942593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25942593
  - briefcomment 6y ago
    Sounds like RH is required to ensure the Best Price for customers, but they were fined last month by the SEC for not doing that. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-321 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-321
    - tomp 6y ago
      Interesting, I didn't realize that. I was explaining my understanding of what's legal, but in light of this your claims seem to have merit!