6 ms·

Don't trust, verify. It makes sense to Visa since they are in the business of verifying trust. Proof of transaction history (ie credit) is public and inherent

by kneel 6y ago

Don't trust, verify. It makes sense to Visa since they are in the business of verifying trust. Proof of transaction history (ie credit) is public and inherent to blockchain, apparently this is taking some time to realize.

warent 6y ago
Isn't the saying "Trust, but verify"
- meowkit 6y ago
  Yes and its a play on that phrase. You don't need to trust people on a blockchain, you have to trust the protocol, and then verify the results.
  - curation 6y ago
    same
- acwan93 6y ago
  Yep, the old Russian proverb that’s falsely attributed to Ronald Reagan [1]. Getting back on topic, that’s entirely Visa’s business in being a payments network. When I first heard about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, I wondered why Visa/MC/Amex/Discover and even (newer) real estate companies like Redfin weren’t looking at this seriously, since it could hypothetically be used to verify contracts and transactions in a decentralized way. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify
- eruleman 6y ago
  "Don't trust, verify" is crypto's slogan. "Trust, but verify" is Reagan's slogan.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    The crypto slogan is “In Tether We Trust For Some Reason”
z0xz0xz0x 6y ago
The average person with a Visa credit card has no idea how blockchain works, just like they don't know how traditional payment processors work. Unfortunately, with the amount of bad press constantly generated by media companies that are inherently linked with existing financial systems, people's ideas of crypto are probably overwhelmingly negative. This a great step towards building trust with the public, IMO.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
Visa is in the payments business. The US Federal Reserve ("The Fed") is going live with an instant payments service in 2023-2024 [1] [2]. What does that leave Visa with? Hence, the existential crisis (first, trying to buy Plaid, and now "Crypto!"). [1] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/index.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/index.... [2] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa...
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Visa is left with a valuable rewards game system where people get cash back or points or whatever. Plus the liability protections that credit cards come with. People can already use debit cards with no effort, and merchants can accept that at very minimal costs. But still, most merchants are hesitant to offer lower prices to purchases with debit card because they are betting people spend more with credit cards. I don’t expect this to change when the Fed’s system comes into play. I would actually expect the Fed’s system to replace cash transactions more than credit cards.
  - nowherebeen 6y ago
    I don't think their rewards system is as valuable on you might think. When the cost of visa transactions are ultimately pushed to the consumer (~3%), they will eventually realize, those rewards are not worth the cost. Off course, this will probably take some time. But in my opinion, Visa's moat is thin and mostly reliant on the behavior of their users. For US, I expect Visa to still be dominant, but not so much in other countries in Europe and Asia where people are much more savvy with their money habits.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > they will eventually realize, those rewards are not worth the cost. Debit cards in the US have been available and basically free to use for all merchants and purchasers for many decades. Yet, merchants willingly do not give people that buy with a debit card a discount. That seems like proof to me that merchants are betting that they earn more money from the use of credit cards, even after the fees associated with them, so I don’t see why another no or low fee purchase mechanism would change the situation.
pjc50 6y ago
However, not with a central counterparty doing off chain transactions and settlement. It makes sense, really: the speed and energy consumption of bitcoin is far too bad for mass adoption of direct transactions, and there's no fraud prevention or recovery of accidental loss, so Visa can replace the inefficient blockchain parts with a nice central database that the few remaining people wanting to do purchases rather than speculation can use.
dc2k08 6y ago
Don't trust visa/mastercard as they've used their muscle to censor views they dislike.

by kneel 6y ago

warent 6y ago

Isn't the saying "Trust, but verify"

meowkit 6y ago
Yes and its a play on that phrase. You don't need to trust people on a blockchain, you have to trust the protocol, and then verify the results.
- curation 6y ago
  same
acwan93 6y ago
Yep, the old Russian proverb that’s falsely attributed to Ronald Reagan [1]. Getting back on topic, that’s entirely Visa’s business in being a payments network. When I first heard about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, I wondered why Visa/MC/Amex/Discover and even (newer) real estate companies like Redfin weren’t looking at this seriously, since it could hypothetically be used to verify contracts and transactions in a decentralized way. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify
eruleman 6y ago
"Don't trust, verify" is crypto's slogan. "Trust, but verify" is Reagan's slogan.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  The crypto slogan is “In Tether We Trust For Some Reason”

z0xz0xz0x 6y ago

The average person with a Visa credit card has no idea how blockchain works, just like they don't know how traditional payment processors work. Unfortunately, with the amount of bad press constantly generated by media companies that are inherently linked with existing financial systems, people's ideas of crypto are probably overwhelmingly negative. This a great step towards building trust with the public, IMO.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Visa is in the payments business. The US Federal Reserve ("The Fed") is going live with an instant payments service in 2023-2024 [1] [2]. What does that leave Visa with? Hence, the existential crisis (first, trying to buy Plaid, and now "Crypto!"). [1] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/index.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/index.... [2] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa...

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Visa is left with a valuable rewards game system where people get cash back or points or whatever. Plus the liability protections that credit cards come with. People can already use debit cards with no effort, and merchants can accept that at very minimal costs. But still, most merchants are hesitant to offer lower prices to purchases with debit card because they are betting people spend more with credit cards. I don’t expect this to change when the Fed’s system comes into play. I would actually expect the Fed’s system to replace cash transactions more than credit cards.
- nowherebeen 6y ago
  I don't think their rewards system is as valuable on you might think. When the cost of visa transactions are ultimately pushed to the consumer (~3%), they will eventually realize, those rewards are not worth the cost. Off course, this will probably take some time. But in my opinion, Visa's moat is thin and mostly reliant on the behavior of their users. For US, I expect Visa to still be dominant, but not so much in other countries in Europe and Asia where people are much more savvy with their money habits.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > they will eventually realize, those rewards are not worth the cost. Debit cards in the US have been available and basically free to use for all merchants and purchasers for many decades. Yet, merchants willingly do not give people that buy with a debit card a discount. That seems like proof to me that merchants are betting that they earn more money from the use of credit cards, even after the fees associated with them, so I don’t see why another no or low fee purchase mechanism would change the situation.

pjc50 6y ago

However, not with a central counterparty doing off chain transactions and settlement. It makes sense, really: the speed and energy consumption of bitcoin is far too bad for mass adoption of direct transactions, and there's no fraud prevention or recovery of accidental loss, so Visa can replace the inefficient blockchain parts with a nice central database that the few remaining people wanting to do purchases rather than speculation can use.

dc2k08 6y ago

Don't trust visa/mastercard as they've used their muscle to censor views they dislike.