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There's a difference. You can't physically centralize energy production. Local energy price will increase when more energy is used. This ensures that no one can

by Geee 6y ago

There's a difference. You can't physically centralize energy production. Local energy price will increase when more energy is used. This ensures that no one can get in a position of control. In PoS, it's possible to get > 50% ownership, and it's game over.

wmf 6y ago
Is 70% of Bitcoin mining still in China?
- latchkey 6y ago
  Does it matter? As long as there is enough mining that isn't controlled by a single entity (mining in China isn't a single entity), then the network is secure.
sp821543 6y ago
Aren't 65% of all bitcoin miners in China? Couldn't the CCP sabotage the network at any time? Say, a month before the launch of their digital currency? https://cbeci.org/mining_map https://cbeci.org/mining_map
- pmohun 6y ago
  This specific visualization is limited to 37% of the hash power on the network. It's possible that it is a representative sample, but I don't think we can assume that.
  - latchkey 6y ago
    Even better, it is limited to pools that primarily operate in China. I really wish someone would turn off that link. It is really awkwardly bad and mis-quoted a lot.
T0Bi 6y ago
With proof of work you have economy of scale working in your favor. You'll get different deals on asic, power, server farms, etc. the more you buy. PoW by design leads to centralization and we can see it happening live with bitcoin mining. At least with proof of stake there's no economy of scale. Everyone can participate fairly easily.
pjmorris 6y ago
> You can't physically centralize energy production. But you can centralize ownership of energy production.
gvhst 6y ago
That is true, but its easy to centralize private ASIC designs or in a more extreme case the underlying chip fabs. If TSMC wanted to control the Bitcoin network they'd have a fair shot given they have by far and away the best fabrication technology for high performance chips
- latchkey 6y ago
  You hit the nail on the head. TSMC, Samsung and GlobalFoundries are the centralization points of all of mining because they produce the chips. Good thing they like money and they are global corporations.

by Geee 6y ago

wmf 6y ago

Is 70% of Bitcoin mining still in China?

latchkey 6y ago
Does it matter? As long as there is enough mining that isn't controlled by a single entity (mining in China isn't a single entity), then the network is secure.

sp821543 6y ago

Aren't 65% of all bitcoin miners in China? Couldn't the CCP sabotage the network at any time? Say, a month before the launch of their digital currency? https://cbeci.org/mining_map https://cbeci.org/mining_map

pmohun 6y ago
This specific visualization is limited to 37% of the hash power on the network. It's possible that it is a representative sample, but I don't think we can assume that.
- latchkey 6y ago
  Even better, it is limited to pools that primarily operate in China. I really wish someone would turn off that link. It is really awkwardly bad and mis-quoted a lot.

T0Bi 6y ago

With proof of work you have economy of scale working in your favor. You'll get different deals on asic, power, server farms, etc. the more you buy. PoW by design leads to centralization and we can see it happening live with bitcoin mining. At least with proof of stake there's no economy of scale. Everyone can participate fairly easily.

pjmorris 6y ago

> You can't physically centralize energy production. But you can centralize ownership of energy production.

gvhst 6y ago

That is true, but its easy to centralize private ASIC designs or in a more extreme case the underlying chip fabs. If TSMC wanted to control the Bitcoin network they'd have a fair shot given they have by far and away the best fabrication technology for high performance chips

latchkey 6y ago
You hit the nail on the head. TSMC, Samsung and GlobalFoundries are the centralization points of all of mining because they produce the chips. Good thing they like money and they are global corporations.