4 ms·

The D in DNA stands for deoxyribose, a sugar. This is not how chemistry/biology works. The extra stuff matters. That's why I linked the article, as it speaks ab

The D in DNA stands for deoxyribose, a sugar. This is not how chemistry/biology works. The extra stuff matters. That's why I linked the article, as it speaks about dex and MDMA having distinct pharmacology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_methylenedioxyphenethylamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_methylenedioxyphen... subgroup of... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine subgroup of... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_phenethylamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_phenethylamine If you go all the way down you will find the natural precursor amino acids to a range of neurotransmitters, and ... they will look very similar to amphetamine. It is also worth noting that street economy MDMA is frequently cut with stimulants, as the pure MDMA effects are not well suited for partying. E pills often have 20-30% MDA, caffeine, amphetamine or meth in them. Also equating dopamine release with addiction is also not very precise. There are different dopamine systems in the brain. Usually it's assumed the addiction potential of MDMA rather stemming from the frequent over-exciting experiences dulling every day life. People are chasing the intense party life vastly enhanced by drugs, not exactly the drugs themselves. Many MDMA addicts limit their consume to the weekend and suffer through the boringness of work week; usually it doesn't spiral out of control like with other drugs. For most people it's not a every day kind of stimulant drug like cocaine, amphetamine or meth.

tachyonbeam 6y ago
> The D in DNA stands for deoxyribose, a sugar. This is not how chemistry/biology works. I don't know if you can really digest DNA and get calories out of it, but the thing is, methamphetamine and MDMA both bind to the serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake transporters and produce release of monoamines. I would bet you that they are also deactivated by the same enzymes, etc. It's not a coincidence. They behave similarly because they are (very) similar molecules. Not all molecules that are similar behave similarly, but they often do. That shouldn't be so surprising if you have a background in chemistry. > the pure MDMA effects are not well suited for partying. I know many people who party on pure MDMA. The effect varies from person to person. Some people find pure MDMA very relaxing, others find it very stimulating. > People are chasing the intense party life vastly enhanced by drugs, not exactly the drugs themselves. As someone who has experienced this first hand, I would say that things are muddier than you think. Stimulants affect your reward pathways. They slowly change your behavior so that you can get that dopamine hit again. It can sneak up on you without you really realizing. You think you love partying, but at some point, you might just realize, you have a lot of friends who do drugs, and you've gradually restructured your life so that you can do drugs more often. > Many MDMA addicts limit their consume to the weekend and suffer through the boringness of work week; usually it doesn't spiral out of control like with other drugs. For most people it's not a every day kind of stimulant drug like cocaine, amphetamine or meth. I think there's two aspects to this: 1. MDMA depletes serotonin reserves. If you abuse it during the weekend, you get diminishing returns. It's kind of self-limiting in that way. With cocaine and amphetamine, you can increase the dose and keep getting a strong euphoric effect, you can push things much farther, go on binges that last several days without sleeping. 2. The culture is different. There's a whole subculture of people who party on weekends. That subculture is different from that of meth users. Most of the people who can afford to go out to parties and clubs have day jobs and lives outside of partying. Most people are disciplined enough to throw their lives away and use drugs with some amount of moderation. I also know many people who manage to take cocaine, ketamine and speed on weekends and live a pretty normal life the rest of the time. People who take meth are often poor, even homeless and in dire circumstances. They're looking to maximize cost-efficiency, get the best bang for their buck in terms of getting a high, which is why they inject or smoke it. Kind of like an alcoholic might go for drinking pure, cheap whisky. People do that because they are desperate and hopeless :(
- monopoledance 6y ago
  Some good points. I just wanted to say that equating MDMA with amphetamine is wrong. Lots of things work on the dopaminergic systems, but that alone doesn't mean amphetamine has the same addiction profile as nicotine or cocaine, much less MDMA. LSD interacts with dopamine receptors too, but it's really not addictive at all. I think amphetamine's action is much more affecting the anticipation of reward than reward itself. The selective dopaminergic effect is why it works for ADHD, but nicotine and caffeine do not. Abuse comes with finding ways to spike the system and causing dysregulation, e.g. secondary dopaminergic effects across the brain. I think MDMA usually isn't consumed in a way getting a high from a sudden spike, it isn't smoked, injected and probably overall seldomly snorted; I think it's mostly taken orally. That's also why people smoke meth. It's not about efficiency, but the rapid uptake is essential for a certain type of high. E.g. nicotine patches aren't addictive. For nicotine to become hugely addictive you need the rush from rapid uptake via inhalation in addition to MAOIs found in tobacco smoke. Crack is vastly more addictive than cocaine for the same reason. The free base allows for inhalation, that's the whole magic. Anyway, I am just nitpicking about the amphetamine ~= MDMA. I think we're overall on the same page.

tachyonbeam 6y ago

> The D in DNA stands for deoxyribose, a sugar. This is not how chemistry/biology works. I don't know if you can really digest DNA and get calories out of it, but the thing is, methamphetamine and MDMA both bind to the serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake transporters and produce release of monoamines. I would bet you that they are also deactivated by the same enzymes, etc. It's not a coincidence. They behave similarly because they are (very) similar molecules. Not all molecules that are similar behave similarly, but they often do. That shouldn't be so surprising if you have a background in chemistry. > the pure MDMA effects are not well suited for partying. I know many people who party on pure MDMA. The effect varies from person to person. Some people find pure MDMA very relaxing, others find it very stimulating. > People are chasing the intense party life vastly enhanced by drugs, not exactly the drugs themselves. As someone who has experienced this first hand, I would say that things are muddier than you think. Stimulants affect your reward pathways. They slowly change your behavior so that you can get that dopamine hit again. It can sneak up on you without you really realizing. You think you love partying, but at some point, you might just realize, you have a lot of friends who do drugs, and you've gradually restructured your life so that you can do drugs more often. > Many MDMA addicts limit their consume to the weekend and suffer through the boringness of work week; usually it doesn't spiral out of control like with other drugs. For most people it's not a every day kind of stimulant drug like cocaine, amphetamine or meth. I think there's two aspects to this: 1. MDMA depletes serotonin reserves. If you abuse it during the weekend, you get diminishing returns. It's kind of self-limiting in that way. With cocaine and amphetamine, you can increase the dose and keep getting a strong euphoric effect, you can push things much farther, go on binges that last several days without sleeping. 2. The culture is different. There's a whole subculture of people who party on weekends. That subculture is different from that of meth users. Most of the people who can afford to go out to parties and clubs have day jobs and lives outside of partying. Most people are disciplined enough to throw their lives away and use drugs with some amount of moderation. I also know many people who manage to take cocaine, ketamine and speed on weekends and live a pretty normal life the rest of the time. People who take meth are often poor, even homeless and in dire circumstances. They're looking to maximize cost-efficiency, get the best bang for their buck in terms of getting a high, which is why they inject or smoke it. Kind of like an alcoholic might go for drinking pure, cheap whisky. People do that because they are desperate and hopeless :(

monopoledance 6y ago
Some good points. I just wanted to say that equating MDMA with amphetamine is wrong. Lots of things work on the dopaminergic systems, but that alone doesn't mean amphetamine has the same addiction profile as nicotine or cocaine, much less MDMA. LSD interacts with dopamine receptors too, but it's really not addictive at all. I think amphetamine's action is much more affecting the anticipation of reward than reward itself. The selective dopaminergic effect is why it works for ADHD, but nicotine and caffeine do not. Abuse comes with finding ways to spike the system and causing dysregulation, e.g. secondary dopaminergic effects across the brain. I think MDMA usually isn't consumed in a way getting a high from a sudden spike, it isn't smoked, injected and probably overall seldomly snorted; I think it's mostly taken orally. That's also why people smoke meth. It's not about efficiency, but the rapid uptake is essential for a certain type of high. E.g. nicotine patches aren't addictive. For nicotine to become hugely addictive you need the rush from rapid uptake via inhalation in addition to MAOIs found in tobacco smoke. Crack is vastly more addictive than cocaine for the same reason. The free base allows for inhalation, that's the whole magic. Anyway, I am just nitpicking about the amphetamine ~= MDMA. I think we're overall on the same page.