5 ms·

Immigrants everywhere are brought in to work for smaller wages than locals. What’s so new or unusual about this? The situation is unfortunate, of course. But th

Immigrants everywhere are brought in to work for smaller wages than locals. What’s so new or unusual about this? The situation is unfortunate, of course. But the U.S. is not much different here. However, doing the same thing as everyone with less damage to economy (and therefore local working people, taxpayers, etc.) because of productivity is not necessarily such a bad thing. IMO, it should be much easier for productive people to enter any country than it is now. And it should be harder for non-productive ones (it’s too easy now in many places). Context: I am an expat myself.

eeZah7Ux 6y ago
> But the U.S. is not much different here The US is profoundly different. Very few developed countries have at-will employment. It puts immigrants at risk of being fired and losing health insurance in any moment and with 0 warning. This creates a very exploitative environment. Not to mention how difficult it is to immigrate, or to get a green card or citizenship compared to many other countries.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  > Not to mention how difficult it is to immigrate, or to get a green card or citizenship compared to many other countries Compared with which countries?
  - f6v 6y ago
    Germany. 21 months working on a Blue Card gets you the right to apply for an unlimited permanent residence. And the Blue Card is rather trivial to get. All you need is a degree and a contract with a company. No visa sponsorship required, i.e. it costs a German company 0 to hire someone outside the EU. I think Canada’s express entry is a good example as well.
    - pelasaco 6y ago
      > All you need is a degree and a contract with a company. That's just possible for some markets. If you are talking about your own experience, that's because you are probably software developer. Canada and Australia are definitely not easier, but more transparent.
      - f6v 6y ago
        https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa/skilled-immigration-act https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa/skilled-immigrati... It's still a good deal. Non-IT professionals can get a PR status in 4 years.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      Big asterisk there. German education accreditation for Blue Card is rather fickle. Germany maintains a rather short list of universities per-country which it recognises as institutes of higher learning. You may have a rather ordinary uni degree in mainstream occupation, but if your uni is not on the list, you can't do anything. If you passed a university program in a recognised university, but your program is missing from a dropdown list on their website, again, you can't do anything. And if you have both, but your degree does not state in its title verbatim that it is a bachelor, or masters program regardless of years of study, again, you can't do anything about it.
      - f6v 6y ago
        > you can't do anything. You're right, that happened to me in 2014. My then-employer had to drive to some government office and ask them to give a go-ahead for my degree. But I've never heard anything like that since that time.
- beyondcompute 6y ago
  Good point. But the healthcare situation is a different topic.
  - eeZah7Ux 6y ago
    It's not.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  “Nobody goes there any more; it’s too crowded.” At-will employment has pros and cons. It’s not like citizens have permanent employment contracts and immigrants have at-will arrangements. Employers are more willing to hire if firing someone who doesn’t work out isn’t ruinous for the employer. It’s true that someone who emigrates from a country where they have a permanent employment arrangement is giving something up to come to the US. Presumably, they think it’s worth it.
- dgellow 6y ago
  > Very few developed countries have at-will employment. And no other country than the US has 0 paid vacation days and 0 paid public holydays! The other day I was checking number of paid vacations per country, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b..., the US is the only country ns the world with 0 total paid leave.
  - danans 6y ago
    > And no other country than the US has 0 paid vacation days and 0 paid public holydays! The vast majority of US states do not even guarantee any paid sick leave. https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/payroll/state-mandated-paid-sick-leave-laws/ https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/payroll/state-mandated-... All together this has the effect of increasing employers' leverage over employees, especially in industries with limited jobs and lots of competition for them.

eeZah7Ux 6y ago

> But the U.S. is not much different here The US is profoundly different. Very few developed countries have at-will employment. It puts immigrants at risk of being fired and losing health insurance in any moment and with 0 warning. This creates a very exploitative environment. Not to mention how difficult it is to immigrate, or to get a green card or citizenship compared to many other countries.

pelasaco 6y ago
> Not to mention how difficult it is to immigrate, or to get a green card or citizenship compared to many other countries Compared with which countries?
- f6v 6y ago
  Germany. 21 months working on a Blue Card gets you the right to apply for an unlimited permanent residence. And the Blue Card is rather trivial to get. All you need is a degree and a contract with a company. No visa sponsorship required, i.e. it costs a German company 0 to hire someone outside the EU. I think Canada’s express entry is a good example as well.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    > All you need is a degree and a contract with a company. That's just possible for some markets. If you are talking about your own experience, that's because you are probably software developer. Canada and Australia are definitely not easier, but more transparent.
    - f6v 6y ago
      https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa/skilled-immigration-act https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa/skilled-immigrati... It's still a good deal. Non-IT professionals can get a PR status in 4 years.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Big asterisk there. German education accreditation for Blue Card is rather fickle. Germany maintains a rather short list of universities per-country which it recognises as institutes of higher learning. You may have a rather ordinary uni degree in mainstream occupation, but if your uni is not on the list, you can't do anything. If you passed a university program in a recognised university, but your program is missing from a dropdown list on their website, again, you can't do anything. And if you have both, but your degree does not state in its title verbatim that it is a bachelor, or masters program regardless of years of study, again, you can't do anything about it.
    - f6v 6y ago
      > you can't do anything. You're right, that happened to me in 2014. My then-employer had to drive to some government office and ask them to give a go-ahead for my degree. But I've never heard anything like that since that time.
beyondcompute 6y ago
Good point. But the healthcare situation is a different topic.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  It's not.
sokoloff 6y ago
“Nobody goes there any more; it’s too crowded.” At-will employment has pros and cons. It’s not like citizens have permanent employment contracts and immigrants have at-will arrangements. Employers are more willing to hire if firing someone who doesn’t work out isn’t ruinous for the employer. It’s true that someone who emigrates from a country where they have a permanent employment arrangement is giving something up to come to the US. Presumably, they think it’s worth it.
dgellow 6y ago
> Very few developed countries have at-will employment. And no other country than the US has 0 paid vacation days and 0 paid public holydays! The other day I was checking number of paid vacations per country, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b..., the US is the only country ns the world with 0 total paid leave.
- danans 6y ago
  > And no other country than the US has 0 paid vacation days and 0 paid public holydays! The vast majority of US states do not even guarantee any paid sick leave. https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/payroll/state-mandated-paid-sick-leave-laws/ https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/payroll/state-mandated-... All together this has the effect of increasing employers' leverage over employees, especially in industries with limited jobs and lots of competition for them.