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Yea I don't know, I wouldn't want the symbol of my life be the symbol of the thing that has had blood and child labor all over throughout history (and even to t

Yea I don't know, I wouldn't want the symbol of my life be the symbol of the thing that has had blood and child labor all over throughout history (and even to this day). Unless the dealer literally mined it himself, I wouldn't want to have 0.0001% chance of my wife waring a rock that a child took out from the earth with armed guards watching him.

xyzelement 6y ago
I don't know the depth of your concern, but any diamond I had seen and considered buying was certified for what it was - including it's mining history.
- Nursie 6y ago
  Personally I don't think I'd even want that, the diamond mines never sounded like a dignified place to work, and have serious environmental consequences. I'd rather have lab-grown if anything, which are free of ethical concerns around labour, and are getting their energy footprint down into the tens of kWH per carat range.
  - xyzelement 6y ago
    You had left another response saying I was likely bamboozled into this purchase and that signaling is misogynist and outmoded. You deleted your post before I submitted my response but I want to have it here if anyone is interested, since I took the energy to write it: You're looking at it in a very limited way. I would say that someone who is happy with their purchase several years down the line is not bamboozled. I am also realistically pretty qualified to think through the economics of it (many years in finance and deep study of Econ.) I am by no means saying "great investment everyone should make" - I am pointing to this being a rather experiential thing. Do you have the same strong reaction to people who invest time and money into "pointless" hobbies, or makes career decisions that don't maximize their income? Because I can easily argue that even having a TV-watching (vs study) habit costs you more over your lifetime than the most expensive diamond - yet hardly anyone poo-poos those choices. I also invite you to see whether there are many guys on this thread or in your life who proposed with decently expensive rings and regret it. I am not seeing it. Are you? Otherwise, it seems like you have only analytical experience of the topic while we have both the analytical and experiential (that was the point of my mango analogy) so you may want to recognize you have a limited perspective here. Whether the signaling is outdated and misogynist, I guess you can decide for yourself, but I'll have you consider this: while my wife and I are equal in all tangible ways: education, income level, etc. she still absolutely bears most of the risk of pregnancy and birth. Even afterwards, it's theoretically easy for me to say "never mind" and reset my life, while she's saddled with all the consequences. I recognized that when I was proposing and felt it very heavily, and on some level the ring does speak to an investment and commitment from my part. I don't think my wife gave it that level of analysis but I bet this is at least some of the history behind the "burden of proof" being on the guy. I am by no means saying everyone has to do it this way - there are tons of different attitudes and approaches people can take, and here's ours. And by the way, it's far from uncommon. EG: I have worked in finance, with some very high powered women who were certainly not reliant on any guy for anything - but they universally had nice diamond bands on their hands.
    - Nursie 6y ago
      I removed that other response because it wasn't constructive, but I guess you saw it and wanted to engage. Ok... Nobody in my life proposed with a "decently expensive" ring as far as I know, people here (UK) don't routinely do that to the same extent americans do, and showing off huge rocks socially would generally be considered gauche. Further, nobody is going to admit regretting such a purchase anyway due to post-purchase rationalisation. Not even to themselves. The more expensibe something is, the stronger this effect. Your idea that you, as a man, could leave post-childbirth and the woman couldn't is also rooted in gendered assumptions. And a diamond changes none of it anyway, losing half of its value at least from the moment you buy it, it's hardly an insurance policy. I also can't imagine being with someone to whom the idea of "burden of proof" in a relationship would be meaningful. People don't get criticised for wasting their lives in front of the tv? Which world do you live in? I've been working in and around finance for years, never noticed women wearing huge rocks around the office. Maybe it's an American thing. To me, you got suckered by DeBeers. Glad you don't feel that way, but it looks a hell of a lot like rationalisation from here. (You bought a shiny thing for your meaningful other and she liked it! Good for you! You spend your money how you like, go for those status symbols if that's your thing. The idea that it's meaningful to spend so much on a trinket, not so much)
      - xyzelement 6y ago
        Ok so I guess it comes down to us living in different cultures and your inability to tolerate a culture different from yours? Do you have the same problem with Indians and their culture of using gold and jewels as associated with the wedding? Or is this just a singular dislike of Americans?

xyzelement 6y ago

I don't know the depth of your concern, but any diamond I had seen and considered buying was certified for what it was - including it's mining history.

Nursie 6y ago
Personally I don't think I'd even want that, the diamond mines never sounded like a dignified place to work, and have serious environmental consequences. I'd rather have lab-grown if anything, which are free of ethical concerns around labour, and are getting their energy footprint down into the tens of kWH per carat range.
- xyzelement 6y ago
  You had left another response saying I was likely bamboozled into this purchase and that signaling is misogynist and outmoded. You deleted your post before I submitted my response but I want to have it here if anyone is interested, since I took the energy to write it: You're looking at it in a very limited way. I would say that someone who is happy with their purchase several years down the line is not bamboozled. I am also realistically pretty qualified to think through the economics of it (many years in finance and deep study of Econ.) I am by no means saying "great investment everyone should make" - I am pointing to this being a rather experiential thing. Do you have the same strong reaction to people who invest time and money into "pointless" hobbies, or makes career decisions that don't maximize their income? Because I can easily argue that even having a TV-watching (vs study) habit costs you more over your lifetime than the most expensive diamond - yet hardly anyone poo-poos those choices. I also invite you to see whether there are many guys on this thread or in your life who proposed with decently expensive rings and regret it. I am not seeing it. Are you? Otherwise, it seems like you have only analytical experience of the topic while we have both the analytical and experiential (that was the point of my mango analogy) so you may want to recognize you have a limited perspective here. Whether the signaling is outdated and misogynist, I guess you can decide for yourself, but I'll have you consider this: while my wife and I are equal in all tangible ways: education, income level, etc. she still absolutely bears most of the risk of pregnancy and birth. Even afterwards, it's theoretically easy for me to say "never mind" and reset my life, while she's saddled with all the consequences. I recognized that when I was proposing and felt it very heavily, and on some level the ring does speak to an investment and commitment from my part. I don't think my wife gave it that level of analysis but I bet this is at least some of the history behind the "burden of proof" being on the guy. I am by no means saying everyone has to do it this way - there are tons of different attitudes and approaches people can take, and here's ours. And by the way, it's far from uncommon. EG: I have worked in finance, with some very high powered women who were certainly not reliant on any guy for anything - but they universally had nice diamond bands on their hands.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    I removed that other response because it wasn't constructive, but I guess you saw it and wanted to engage. Ok... Nobody in my life proposed with a "decently expensive" ring as far as I know, people here (UK) don't routinely do that to the same extent americans do, and showing off huge rocks socially would generally be considered gauche. Further, nobody is going to admit regretting such a purchase anyway due to post-purchase rationalisation. Not even to themselves. The more expensibe something is, the stronger this effect. Your idea that you, as a man, could leave post-childbirth and the woman couldn't is also rooted in gendered assumptions. And a diamond changes none of it anyway, losing half of its value at least from the moment you buy it, it's hardly an insurance policy. I also can't imagine being with someone to whom the idea of "burden of proof" in a relationship would be meaningful. People don't get criticised for wasting their lives in front of the tv? Which world do you live in? I've been working in and around finance for years, never noticed women wearing huge rocks around the office. Maybe it's an American thing. To me, you got suckered by DeBeers. Glad you don't feel that way, but it looks a hell of a lot like rationalisation from here. (You bought a shiny thing for your meaningful other and she liked it! Good for you! You spend your money how you like, go for those status symbols if that's your thing. The idea that it's meaningful to spend so much on a trinket, not so much)
    - xyzelement 6y ago
      Ok so I guess it comes down to us living in different cultures and your inability to tolerate a culture different from yours? Do you have the same problem with Indians and their culture of using gold and jewels as associated with the wedding? Or is this just a singular dislike of Americans?