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I agree that AstraZeneca should have been communicating better. It is not the first time they have caused public outrage due to communication issues. On the oth

by NoPie 6y ago

I agree that AstraZeneca should have been communicating better. It is not the first time they have caused public outrage due to communication issues. On the other hand, this is pandemic and they are trying their best with the vaccine. Is it really the time to criticize them for minor faults? They really believed that they will be able to manufacture all the doses in time. They had a bad luck. But again a year ago most didn't even believe that such vaccine is possible, so they deserve credit for their efforts. Their vaccine appears effective – most importantly the vaccine completely eliminated hospitalizations and deaths. The value of their product is very high and they are not even making profit from it. >> Then maybe AZ should have made arrangements, or asked for help, if they saw they weren't going to be able to fulfill the orders - or maybe they were expecting to move orders from UK, yet they were blocked? Who knows, right? I don't think there is any conspiracy. From AstraZeneca's point they want to produce as much vaccine and as fast as possible and to give it to all countries. Taking manufactured vaccines from one country and giving them to another doesn't magically increase the amount of available vaccines, so the value of that is low so they are not going to do it unless really necessary. Maybe the argument is that the UK has already vaccinated their risk groups and their urgency is lower, so they could give more vaccine now to the EU. This is the argument from the WHO as well. I even partially agree to this, although I am a little bit suspicious about the WHO as they haven't been very efficient during this pandemic. But at least it makes sense unlike all these talks about sanctity of (unclearly written) contracts.

libertine 6y ago
Well if missing an order by 70 million doses with a 2 months notice is a minor fault, what would be a major fault? Again, one thing is missing by less then half, other thing is more then half while fulfilling almost fully orders for other countries. So, clearly some contracts have more value then others, or there are blocks in place. Trump was pretty explicit and transparent about it: issued an executive order mandating all USA orders to have priority for USA. This is something tangible that can be worked with. What about UK? Why don't they come forward and say they also have a block for vaccine exports? Or it's only the EU that's "hostile" for doing it now? >I don't think there is any conspiracy. This isn't a conspiracy at all. It's binary: AZ can't, or won't, move stock from UK.
- NoPie 6y ago
  The major fault would be ineffective vaccine or the one with bad side-effects. Or not being able to manufacture at all. They did very well, all things considered. Normally setting up such manufacturing takes years. They didn't screw up. Just having some teething problems that will soon be solved.
  - libertine 6y ago
    I'm sorry but I don't think you understand how serious this is: let me reframe this. AZ told the EU, 2 days ago, that the order to be delivered by March is missing 70 MILLION OUT OF 100 MILLION doses. This order takes MONTHS to prepare - just to put it in perspective. Imagine a production capacity of 2.000.000 doses per week, it would take AZ 50 WEEKS TO FULFILL THIS ORDER. And 8 weeks before delivery is when they realize that they will miss the delivery by 70.000.000 doses? Are you kidding me? 70.000.000 is enough to give immunize plenty of European countries alone, and they remember to notify the EU few weeks before their delivery.
    - NoPie 6y ago
      What exactly is your argument? Biologics are messy. It is not chemical synthesis that is easy to assay and finetune. They are growing live modified viruses. No one has made such vaccine before. Pfizer and Moderna vaccine is technologically different, and even they are having scaling issues and delays. The reason for the late notice is that most likely the issues were in the last steps of the complicated manufacturing process. Hopefully they learned from this and will be able to ramp up production.
      - libertine 6y ago
        >The reason for the late notice is that most likely the issues were in the last steps of the complicated manufacturing process. Hopefully they learned from this and will be able to ramp up production. Watching the reaction of AZ CEO reaction, I don't see it in that light. Basically they took enough time to have EU too much compromised to turn around and look for other solutions. And don't buy the narrative that AZ isn't gaining anything from this, they're basically getting funding and facilities to enter the vaccine market. Maybe approving AZ was a mistake, and should have doubled down on Pfizer and aprove either the Russian or Chinese vaccine.

by NoPie 6y ago

libertine 6y ago

Well if missing an order by 70 million doses with a 2 months notice is a minor fault, what would be a major fault? Again, one thing is missing by less then half, other thing is more then half while fulfilling almost fully orders for other countries. So, clearly some contracts have more value then others, or there are blocks in place. Trump was pretty explicit and transparent about it: issued an executive order mandating all USA orders to have priority for USA. This is something tangible that can be worked with. What about UK? Why don't they come forward and say they also have a block for vaccine exports? Or it's only the EU that's "hostile" for doing it now? >I don't think there is any conspiracy. This isn't a conspiracy at all. It's binary: AZ can't, or won't, move stock from UK.

NoPie 6y ago
The major fault would be ineffective vaccine or the one with bad side-effects. Or not being able to manufacture at all. They did very well, all things considered. Normally setting up such manufacturing takes years. They didn't screw up. Just having some teething problems that will soon be solved.
- libertine 6y ago
  I'm sorry but I don't think you understand how serious this is: let me reframe this. AZ told the EU, 2 days ago, that the order to be delivered by March is missing 70 MILLION OUT OF 100 MILLION doses. This order takes MONTHS to prepare - just to put it in perspective. Imagine a production capacity of 2.000.000 doses per week, it would take AZ 50 WEEKS TO FULFILL THIS ORDER. And 8 weeks before delivery is when they realize that they will miss the delivery by 70.000.000 doses? Are you kidding me? 70.000.000 is enough to give immunize plenty of European countries alone, and they remember to notify the EU few weeks before their delivery.
  - NoPie 6y ago
    What exactly is your argument? Biologics are messy. It is not chemical synthesis that is easy to assay and finetune. They are growing live modified viruses. No one has made such vaccine before. Pfizer and Moderna vaccine is technologically different, and even they are having scaling issues and delays. The reason for the late notice is that most likely the issues were in the last steps of the complicated manufacturing process. Hopefully they learned from this and will be able to ramp up production.
    - libertine 6y ago
      >The reason for the late notice is that most likely the issues were in the last steps of the complicated manufacturing process. Hopefully they learned from this and will be able to ramp up production. Watching the reaction of AZ CEO reaction, I don't see it in that light. Basically they took enough time to have EU too much compromised to turn around and look for other solutions. And don't buy the narrative that AZ isn't gaining anything from this, they're basically getting funding and facilities to enter the vaccine market. Maybe approving AZ was a mistake, and should have doubled down on Pfizer and aprove either the Russian or Chinese vaccine.