6 ms·

How does Java pricing work these days (after being bought by Oracle)?

by svrma 6y ago

Tomte 6y ago
You can use OpenJDK (via adoptopenjdk, Redhat or many others) and it's free. Or you pay Oracle for support. Or some other company. Oracle isn't special.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Well, on the other hand OpenJDK is 99% Oracle's work repackaged. If Oracle decided to stop putting out new FOSS-licenced versions, there would be no new OpenJDK releases (since all the core Java devs are Oracle employees). So it's like a no-community project, where you get a dump of FOSS code every now and then from a vendor.
  - hocuspocus 6y ago
    In recent Java versions, there's roughly 20% of external contributions: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/the-arrival-of-java-15 https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/the-arrival-of-... Oracle seems to pursue GraalVM EE as a way to monetize Java. It would be insane for them to change the license, piss off companies with deep pockets, risk a hard fork and see most employees working on the JDK leave.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >In recent Java versions, there's roughly 20% of external contributions: Have to check your link to find out, but is it by number or by impact? (Asking cause many projects have seemingly many "external contributors" but if one looks almost all real work happens by a core team, and the external contributors just do some change here and there, or even clerical work, like fixing comments and documentation and such).
      - rpdillon 6y ago
        The post measures by issue count, though not all issues are equal. > Of the 2,136 JIRA issues marked as fixed in Java 15, 1,702 were completed by people working for Oracle, while 434 were contributed by individual developers and developers working for other organizations.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    A correction - all the core Java developers are paid by Oracle to develop Java. I doubt that Oracle would win anything, by abandoning OpenJDK. And now - they can't. Companies that are able to maintain Java are X times larger than Oracle and the core team would easily be rehired by IBM, Google, Aamazon, Facebook, Apple, etc...
    - geodel 6y ago
      None of the companies you listed would gain much over current model. They would rather move to different technologies in case Java is abandoned. > Companies that are able to maintain Java are X times larger than Oracle With exception of maybe IBM which anyway is crapping out, none of the other owe their business success to directly to Java based product or services. If Java were to be abandoned they can easily migrate / rewrite their internal tools / products to a different platform even if it takes 5-10 years. It is not like current prod systems will stop working just by announcement. Also to think further Oracle abandons Java , Amazon and Google would have huge incentive to either charge lot more for Java on cloud or redirect their customers to alternatives.
      - JAlexoid 6y ago
        > They would rather move to different technologies in case Java is abandoned. They had the opportunity to do so for at least a decade now, but they didn't. Google, even after the massive row with Oracle, still uses Java extensively. Still has new projects written in Java(or running on JVM). Having a big legal battle between Google and Oracle would surely have dissuaded FAANGs from starting Java projects, right? Nope... You're flat out wrong. > Java were to be abandoned they can easily migrate / rewrite That's one delusional world you live in. > It is not like current prod systems will stop working just by announcement. And what makes you think that those big boys aren't going to be interested in maintaining JVM?
  - kaba0 6y ago
    As opposed to which big open-source project? Do you really believe linux is a few individuals’ work? Just look at which companies pay the contributors.
pjmlp 6y ago
After being rescued by Oracle, after all no one else wanted to buy Sun, not even Google (hoping it would just sink most likely). Java is as open source and still has multiple implementations available, even Microsoft is now a Java vendor (after having bought jClarity). Basically you want free beer like Linux? Get a distribution from OpenJDK. You want support Red-Hat/SuSE style? There is Oracle, and a plenty of other vendors happy to sell JDKs with support.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >After being rescued by Oracle Java was not rescued by Oracle. There was never any danger of Java going away or not having a proper sponsor. If anything was 'rescued', it was the SPARC/Solaris division of Sun.
  - ksec 6y ago
    At the time, and that is still the case today, Sun / Oracle was the single largest contributor to the Java Ecosystem. Java will surely live but will it thrive without all those investment?
    - macspoofing 6y ago
      >At the time, and that is still the case today, Sun / Oracle was the single largest contributor to the Java Ecosystem. So what? What does that have to do with what I argued? >Java will surely live but will it thrive without all those investment? Are you really trying to make the argument that had Oracle not bought Sun, that Java, one of the most popular programming languages, would have gone away?
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Definitely, as proven by the high performance JIT and GC implementation available for Ruby and Python by the community.
        6y ago
tezza 6y ago
Amazon Corretto - Free Java 8,11 supported by a big firm (Amazon) https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/ https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/
- svrma 6y ago
  Thanks! I haven't heard about this.
skizm 6y ago
Every seems to be being snarky, but on the off chance you care about the actual pricing, and assuming you're talking about Oracle's JDK and not OpenJDK: Oracle's JDK is free to use. You can pay for support if you want, which gives you the bleeding edge security patches immediately (without support you can upgrade every six months to get the all patches). The pricing for support is calculated by CPU core count I believe. So if you're using Java in production on 100 cores, that's going to be more expensive than 10. I don't have the specific numbers off the top of my head though.
- svrma 6y ago
  I was not trying be to snarky. I was genuinely curious to know how it is priced after the oracle acquisition. As a language that I am most used to, I wanted to evaluate how much it'd cost (a rough estimate based on cores/users) if I were to launch a web service based on Java.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    Since Java is free to use and is primarily developed as a GPL software - there are no licensing costs, that you would care about.
    - andylynch 6y ago
      Not if you want to use Oracle's JVM to run something on anything but a laptop or desktop. They will absolutely want you to pay for that and will make sure you do.
      - kaba0 6y ago
        But Oracle’s JVM is the exact same as the OpenJDK in terms of functionality - just to clarify it.
  - andylynch 6y ago
    Oracle actually publish their price list for Oracle Java here - https://www.oracle.com/uk/corporate/pricing/#java-se https://www.oracle.com/uk/corporate/pricing/#java-se In short, starts at $25 per processor per month, discounts starting at 100+ . Look at using OpenJDK/ Amazon Corretto instead
exabrial 6y ago
Free forever. It's open source.

How does Java pricing work these days (after being bought by Oracle)?

by svrma 6y ago

How does Java pricing work these days (after being bought by Oracle)?

You can use OpenJDK (via adoptopenjdk, Redhat or many others) and it's free. Or you pay Oracle for support. Or some other company. Oracle isn't special.

coldtea 6y ago
Well, on the other hand OpenJDK is 99% Oracle's work repackaged. If Oracle decided to stop putting out new FOSS-licenced versions, there would be no new OpenJDK releases (since all the core Java devs are Oracle employees). So it's like a no-community project, where you get a dump of FOSS code every now and then from a vendor.
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  In recent Java versions, there's roughly 20% of external contributions: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/the-arrival-of-java-15 https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/the-arrival-of-... Oracle seems to pursue GraalVM EE as a way to monetize Java. It would be insane for them to change the license, piss off companies with deep pockets, risk a hard fork and see most employees working on the JDK leave.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >In recent Java versions, there's roughly 20% of external contributions: Have to check your link to find out, but is it by number or by impact? (Asking cause many projects have seemingly many "external contributors" but if one looks almost all real work happens by a core team, and the external contributors just do some change here and there, or even clerical work, like fixing comments and documentation and such).
    - rpdillon 6y ago
      The post measures by issue count, though not all issues are equal. > Of the 2,136 JIRA issues marked as fixed in Java 15, 1,702 were completed by people working for Oracle, while 434 were contributed by individual developers and developers working for other organizations.
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  A correction - all the core Java developers are paid by Oracle to develop Java. I doubt that Oracle would win anything, by abandoning OpenJDK. And now - they can't. Companies that are able to maintain Java are X times larger than Oracle and the core team would easily be rehired by IBM, Google, Aamazon, Facebook, Apple, etc...
  - geodel 6y ago
    None of the companies you listed would gain much over current model. They would rather move to different technologies in case Java is abandoned. > Companies that are able to maintain Java are X times larger than Oracle With exception of maybe IBM which anyway is crapping out, none of the other owe their business success to directly to Java based product or services. If Java were to be abandoned they can easily migrate / rewrite their internal tools / products to a different platform even if it takes 5-10 years. It is not like current prod systems will stop working just by announcement. Also to think further Oracle abandons Java , Amazon and Google would have huge incentive to either charge lot more for Java on cloud or redirect their customers to alternatives.
    - JAlexoid 6y ago
      > They would rather move to different technologies in case Java is abandoned. They had the opportunity to do so for at least a decade now, but they didn't. Google, even after the massive row with Oracle, still uses Java extensively. Still has new projects written in Java(or running on JVM). Having a big legal battle between Google and Oracle would surely have dissuaded FAANGs from starting Java projects, right? Nope... You're flat out wrong. > Java were to be abandoned they can easily migrate / rewrite That's one delusional world you live in. > It is not like current prod systems will stop working just by announcement. And what makes you think that those big boys aren't going to be interested in maintaining JVM?
- kaba0 6y ago
  As opposed to which big open-source project? Do you really believe linux is a few individuals’ work? Just look at which companies pay the contributors.

pjmlp 6y ago

After being rescued by Oracle, after all no one else wanted to buy Sun, not even Google (hoping it would just sink most likely). Java is as open source and still has multiple implementations available, even Microsoft is now a Java vendor (after having bought jClarity). Basically you want free beer like Linux? Get a distribution from OpenJDK. You want support Red-Hat/SuSE style? There is Oracle, and a plenty of other vendors happy to sell JDKs with support.

macspoofing 6y ago
>After being rescued by Oracle Java was not rescued by Oracle. There was never any danger of Java going away or not having a proper sponsor. If anything was 'rescued', it was the SPARC/Solaris division of Sun.
- ksec 6y ago
  At the time, and that is still the case today, Sun / Oracle was the single largest contributor to the Java Ecosystem. Java will surely live but will it thrive without all those investment?
  - macspoofing 6y ago
    >At the time, and that is still the case today, Sun / Oracle was the single largest contributor to the Java Ecosystem. So what? What does that have to do with what I argued? >Java will surely live but will it thrive without all those investment? Are you really trying to make the argument that had Oracle not bought Sun, that Java, one of the most popular programming languages, would have gone away?
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Definitely, as proven by the high performance JIT and GC implementation available for Ruby and Python by the community.
      - 6y ago

tezza 6y ago

Amazon Corretto - Free Java 8,11 supported by a big firm (Amazon) https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/ https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/

svrma 6y ago
Thanks! I haven't heard about this.

skizm 6y ago

Every seems to be being snarky, but on the off chance you care about the actual pricing, and assuming you're talking about Oracle's JDK and not OpenJDK: Oracle's JDK is free to use. You can pay for support if you want, which gives you the bleeding edge security patches immediately (without support you can upgrade every six months to get the all patches). The pricing for support is calculated by CPU core count I believe. So if you're using Java in production on 100 cores, that's going to be more expensive than 10. I don't have the specific numbers off the top of my head though.

svrma 6y ago
I was not trying be to snarky. I was genuinely curious to know how it is priced after the oracle acquisition. As a language that I am most used to, I wanted to evaluate how much it'd cost (a rough estimate based on cores/users) if I were to launch a web service based on Java.
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  Since Java is free to use and is primarily developed as a GPL software - there are no licensing costs, that you would care about.
  - andylynch 6y ago
    Not if you want to use Oracle's JVM to run something on anything but a laptop or desktop. They will absolutely want you to pay for that and will make sure you do.
    - kaba0 6y ago
      But Oracle’s JVM is the exact same as the OpenJDK in terms of functionality - just to clarify it.
- andylynch 6y ago
  Oracle actually publish their price list for Oracle Java here - https://www.oracle.com/uk/corporate/pricing/#java-se https://www.oracle.com/uk/corporate/pricing/#java-se In short, starts at $25 per processor per month, discounts starting at 100+ . Look at using OpenJDK/ Amazon Corretto instead

exabrial 6y ago

Free forever. It's open source.