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- Make tests free (fully subsidized) - Shut down the highway off-ramps into towns with some sort of inter-state quarantine scheme (make this legal) - Institut

- Make tests free (fully subsidized) - Shut down the highway off-ramps into towns with some sort of inter-state quarantine scheme (make this legal) - Institute financial support for all non-essential businesses, then force them to close (cease in person trading) during lock-down - Educate the populace on Covid details It's not just about strong walls or deep oceans. We're not talking about a zombie apocalypse here. Stop making excuses.

icelancer 6y ago
>> Shut down the highway off-ramps into towns with some sort of inter-state quarantine scheme (make this legal) "Make this legal" is a pretty hand-wavy way to say that it isn't legal and isn't likely to become legal. Restricting interstate travel is going to be very difficult to both achieve and to survive federal court challenges. Some toolkits are not available to some countries. The United States is unlikely to be able to effectively use the authoritarian measures other countries have used. Pointing this out gets mass downvotes on HN which is a typical libertarian paradise, but when it comes to COVID, is all about authoritarian measures to get it done. I'd be fine with them too if they were at all practical in this country, but they aren't.
- gridspy 6y ago
  I concur it was hand-wavy. I'd hope there was some acceptable measure you could get through the courts here in the name of health. Such a barrier is only really essential when different states have different rules. If you could get all states to agree on a lock-down it would go a long way. You might be able to set up quarantine barriers as you exit the interstate? I don't know. Personally, I think it is terms like "libertarian paradise" which lead to down-votes. Talk about the issues, not some made up catch all names like "libertarian"
  - icelancer 6y ago
    >> I'd hope there was some acceptable measure you could get through the courts here in the name of health. Interstate commerce clause is going to be nearly impossible to subvert in courts, much less state autonomy, and non-cooperating governors (primarily Republican, I'm sure, but Gov. Polis likely wouldn't go for it either). >> Talk about the issues, not some made up catch all names like "libertarian" My comment was downvoted -3 before I even mentioned the word "libertarian." COVID has a way of bringing out the authoritarians in HN. I am not either. I see the value in authoritarian measures, I really do. I also realize they won't work in the US because of both compliance and lack of legal purchase.
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      We Americans are experts on what can't be done. Things that are routinely done in many places around the world, like universal healthcare, free education, and schools without shootings, are routinely declared "impossible" in America. Whenever you suggest even the slightest societal behavioral change to fight some public problem, you have hundreds of thousands of people simply dismissing it because "Americans won't do it, or the law won't allow it, or Wall Street doesn't like it, therefore it's completely impossible." This is from a country that fought the British Empire, helped turn the tide in WW2, put a man on the moon, and made many scientific and technical achievements in the 20th century. But somehow, now, we can't seem to accomplish anything.
      - Uw7yTcf36gTc 6y ago
        That America died in the 80s unfortunately.
      - icelancer 6y ago
        When it comes to scientific and technical achievements, the United States is still leading the remainder of the world and has for an entire century. When it comes to societal change, we're (still) pretty bad. It's almost like they might be related phenomenons.
  - pbourke 6y ago
    I don’t think that the ability to enforce the restrictions was the most important success criteria. Australia, NZ and the other countries that have succeeded have a pro-social culture of collective effort. The US, and increasingly Canada as well, do not - they have an “everyone for themselves” culture. In the end if people are not going to follow the rules it won’t matter what you try to do - you will fail. In the US and Canada people only halfheartedly follow the rules when the situation is grim, the ERs are filled and freezer trucks parked in the hospital parking lot.
twelve40 6y ago
> - Make tests free (fully subsidized) Florida has free tests. I tried two places (giant parks filled with hundreds of cars waiting), the cops told me 3+ hours wait each, I went to a private clinic and was done in 20 min. But yeah, they have free and fully subsidized tests. Apparently the logistics of it is not that simple.
- gridspy 6y ago
  You can't have just one measure. You really need all the measures mentioned in the grandparent comment. Kind of no point having the population get tested now in the US. Without contact tracing and quarantine a positive result arrives too late to help anyone. First you need to lock down the entire state until the daily infected is only 1% of the testing capacity. 4 weeks of level 4 lock-down would do that. Then with contact-tracing you can start to get ahead of the virus by quarantining infected people (close contacts of the positive test) before they even transmit Covid further. Also, I'm sorry that you are experiencing life in a state as infected as Florida. It sounds terrifying. I hope you get well soon and stay safe.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  The other poster obviously means sufficient free testing, not advertising free tests and failing to supply them.

icelancer 6y ago

>> Shut down the highway off-ramps into towns with some sort of inter-state quarantine scheme (make this legal) "Make this legal" is a pretty hand-wavy way to say that it isn't legal and isn't likely to become legal. Restricting interstate travel is going to be very difficult to both achieve and to survive federal court challenges. Some toolkits are not available to some countries. The United States is unlikely to be able to effectively use the authoritarian measures other countries have used. Pointing this out gets mass downvotes on HN which is a typical libertarian paradise, but when it comes to COVID, is all about authoritarian measures to get it done. I'd be fine with them too if they were at all practical in this country, but they aren't.

gridspy 6y ago
I concur it was hand-wavy. I'd hope there was some acceptable measure you could get through the courts here in the name of health. Such a barrier is only really essential when different states have different rules. If you could get all states to agree on a lock-down it would go a long way. You might be able to set up quarantine barriers as you exit the interstate? I don't know. Personally, I think it is terms like "libertarian paradise" which lead to down-votes. Talk about the issues, not some made up catch all names like "libertarian"
- icelancer 6y ago
  >> I'd hope there was some acceptable measure you could get through the courts here in the name of health. Interstate commerce clause is going to be nearly impossible to subvert in courts, much less state autonomy, and non-cooperating governors (primarily Republican, I'm sure, but Gov. Polis likely wouldn't go for it either). >> Talk about the issues, not some made up catch all names like "libertarian" My comment was downvoted -3 before I even mentioned the word "libertarian." COVID has a way of bringing out the authoritarians in HN. I am not either. I see the value in authoritarian measures, I really do. I also realize they won't work in the US because of both compliance and lack of legal purchase.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    We Americans are experts on what can't be done. Things that are routinely done in many places around the world, like universal healthcare, free education, and schools without shootings, are routinely declared "impossible" in America. Whenever you suggest even the slightest societal behavioral change to fight some public problem, you have hundreds of thousands of people simply dismissing it because "Americans won't do it, or the law won't allow it, or Wall Street doesn't like it, therefore it's completely impossible." This is from a country that fought the British Empire, helped turn the tide in WW2, put a man on the moon, and made many scientific and technical achievements in the 20th century. But somehow, now, we can't seem to accomplish anything.
    - Uw7yTcf36gTc 6y ago
      That America died in the 80s unfortunately.
    - icelancer 6y ago
      When it comes to scientific and technical achievements, the United States is still leading the remainder of the world and has for an entire century. When it comes to societal change, we're (still) pretty bad. It's almost like they might be related phenomenons.
- pbourke 6y ago
  I don’t think that the ability to enforce the restrictions was the most important success criteria. Australia, NZ and the other countries that have succeeded have a pro-social culture of collective effort. The US, and increasingly Canada as well, do not - they have an “everyone for themselves” culture. In the end if people are not going to follow the rules it won’t matter what you try to do - you will fail. In the US and Canada people only halfheartedly follow the rules when the situation is grim, the ERs are filled and freezer trucks parked in the hospital parking lot.

twelve40 6y ago

> - Make tests free (fully subsidized) Florida has free tests. I tried two places (giant parks filled with hundreds of cars waiting), the cops told me 3+ hours wait each, I went to a private clinic and was done in 20 min. But yeah, they have free and fully subsidized tests. Apparently the logistics of it is not that simple.

gridspy 6y ago
You can't have just one measure. You really need all the measures mentioned in the grandparent comment. Kind of no point having the population get tested now in the US. Without contact tracing and quarantine a positive result arrives too late to help anyone. First you need to lock down the entire state until the daily infected is only 1% of the testing capacity. 4 weeks of level 4 lock-down would do that. Then with contact-tracing you can start to get ahead of the virus by quarantining infected people (close contacts of the positive test) before they even transmit Covid further. Also, I'm sorry that you are experiencing life in a state as infected as Florida. It sounds terrifying. I hope you get well soon and stay safe.
maxerickson 6y ago
The other poster obviously means sufficient free testing, not advertising free tests and failing to supply them.