6 ms·

Yes. If it means I can actually go to the gym and workout, meet my friends, etc. I am tired of wearing the god damn masks, having to worry about my elderly par

by kiba 6y ago

Yes. If it means I can actually go to the gym and workout, meet my friends, etc. I am tired of wearing the god damn masks, having to worry about my elderly parents, Are you tired of the god damn pandemic? I know I am. Because we already have no freedom.

__blockcipher__ 6y ago
Ethics of mandates aside, there’s no strong evidence that universal cloth masking in a community setting reduces transmissions, and many theoretical mechanisms by which they could worsen transmission (increased aerosol generation, deeper breaths to maintain o2 homeostasis leading to more absolute aerosols, improper handling->contamination, altered social behavior, having to speak louder or closer). So, I would argue that you don’t have to wear a mask now because of the pandemic, you choose to wear one despite a lack of scientific evidence (or are mandated to wear one of course). SARS-2 is a zoonotic, endemic respiratory virus. If you’re tired of it, you need to accept that it’s here to stay and realize that we can’t put life on hold indefinitely and trigger a global food shortage that will end up eclipsing COVID-19 deaths anyway (oops). Anyway, it is your right to decide that you would like totalitarian measures enacted upon you and your family. But you shouldn’t be able to make that decision for me, and unfortunately your “side” has already won and enacted [a half-assed version of] those very failed policies that you continue to venerate across most of the globe. If people put risk in perspective the average person would be less (or equally) afraid of COVID-19 personally than the flu, and your average elderly person would be 5-10x as afraid as the flu but not the current level of fear (feels like 100x IMO). Oh, and schools would be open worldwide with no masks nor social distancing because children are rarely harmed by COVID-19 and are frequently harmed by lockdown measures. [/ramble]
- Jestar342 6y ago
  https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now/ https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-f... https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou... https://fullfact.org/health/evidence-shows-masks-do-offer-protection-covid-19/ https://fullfact.org/health/evidence-shows-masks-do-offer-pr... Please stop perpetuating this myth that masks don't work all because you just don't like wearing one.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    These are closer to pop-sci articles than proper papers. Please read everything Macintyre ever published on the topic of masking in healthcare works before 2020. Start with this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ Linking me a bunch of public health websites isn’t convincing because these organizations don’t actually maintain epistemiological rigor, they just parrot whatever the dogma is. The only RCT of masking for COVID-19 ever performed showed an insignificant benefit in terms of self-infection at best. Meanwhile studies in HCW can’t rule out cloth masks causing bacterial pneumonia and increased self-infection.
    - Jestar342 6y ago
      Literally all of them link scientific papers, if you'd care to read. And it's not "self-infection" that masking is a protection of. Nobody has claimed that. You wear a mask to protect those around you, and they wear their's to protect you. Though it figures you are obsessed with the self and have no regard for the other.
      - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
        No studies exist of infection to others for the obvious reason (too hard to track accurately). If you had read any of the literature you would know this.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  Schools are a huge transmission vector for every communicable disease. Gathering a bunch of people from different households causes diseases to jump between households. It doesn't matter if the kids aren't harmed, it's communicating the disease through the population.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    This has not shown to be the case for COVID-19. Hell, school closures weren’t even recommended by the WHO for influenza which can directly harm children. You need to provide affirmative evidence before undertaking societal interventions with guaranteed negative impact. Does the hippocratic oath ring a bell?
- ldx77 6y ago
  The people in charge certainly seem to think that our lives can be put on hold indefinitely. For me the most annoying thing is the idea that lockdown is somehow "saving" lives. People who are dying from COVID would have died from something else 2-3 years from now. These are old, sick people, whose lives are (mostly) behind them. If I was an 80 yo and my grand-kids were put in prison to allow me to live a couple more years, I would be even more angry than I am right now.
icelancer 6y ago
>> Yes. If it means I can actually go to the gym and workout, meet my friends, etc. It doesn't. No amount of hiding temporarily solves the problem. Authoritarian rules would be in effect until immunity rates are above herd thresholds at a minimum. There is no "one month" shutdown in the US or a connected EU country that solves the problem permanently unless you ban international travelers / force them to quarantine for 14 days in a hotel.
- josephg 6y ago
  > unless you ban international travelers / force them to quarantine for 14 days in a hotel. Thats the sticking point for you? Who cares about international travellers. They can wait, and visit when covid is over.
dennis_jeeves 6y ago
>Are you tired of the god damn pandemic? I know I am. Because we already have no freedom. Well, that for you are ordinary people (govts just echo their sentiments). They will enslave you for their benefit ( real or imaginary). They will take away your freedom under the guise of concern for your health.

by kiba 6y ago

__blockcipher__ 6y ago

Ethics of mandates aside, there’s no strong evidence that universal cloth masking in a community setting reduces transmissions, and many theoretical mechanisms by which they could worsen transmission (increased aerosol generation, deeper breaths to maintain o2 homeostasis leading to more absolute aerosols, improper handling->contamination, altered social behavior, having to speak louder or closer). So, I would argue that you don’t have to wear a mask now because of the pandemic, you choose to wear one despite a lack of scientific evidence (or are mandated to wear one of course). SARS-2 is a zoonotic, endemic respiratory virus. If you’re tired of it, you need to accept that it’s here to stay and realize that we can’t put life on hold indefinitely and trigger a global food shortage that will end up eclipsing COVID-19 deaths anyway (oops). Anyway, it is your right to decide that you would like totalitarian measures enacted upon you and your family. But you shouldn’t be able to make that decision for me, and unfortunately your “side” has already won and enacted [a half-assed version of] those very failed policies that you continue to venerate across most of the globe. If people put risk in perspective the average person would be less (or equally) afraid of COVID-19 personally than the flu, and your average elderly person would be 5-10x as afraid as the flu but not the current level of fear (feels like 100x IMO). Oh, and schools would be open worldwide with no masks nor social distancing because children are rarely harmed by COVID-19 and are frequently harmed by lockdown measures. [/ramble]

Jestar342 6y ago
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now/ https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-f... https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou... https://fullfact.org/health/evidence-shows-masks-do-offer-protection-covid-19/ https://fullfact.org/health/evidence-shows-masks-do-offer-pr... Please stop perpetuating this myth that masks don't work all because you just don't like wearing one.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  These are closer to pop-sci articles than proper papers. Please read everything Macintyre ever published on the topic of masking in healthcare works before 2020. Start with this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ Linking me a bunch of public health websites isn’t convincing because these organizations don’t actually maintain epistemiological rigor, they just parrot whatever the dogma is. The only RCT of masking for COVID-19 ever performed showed an insignificant benefit in terms of self-infection at best. Meanwhile studies in HCW can’t rule out cloth masks causing bacterial pneumonia and increased self-infection.
  - Jestar342 6y ago
    Literally all of them link scientific papers, if you'd care to read. And it's not "self-infection" that masking is a protection of. Nobody has claimed that. You wear a mask to protect those around you, and they wear their's to protect you. Though it figures you are obsessed with the self and have no regard for the other.
    - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
      No studies exist of infection to others for the obvious reason (too hard to track accurately). If you had read any of the literature you would know this.
freeone3000 6y ago
Schools are a huge transmission vector for every communicable disease. Gathering a bunch of people from different households causes diseases to jump between households. It doesn't matter if the kids aren't harmed, it's communicating the disease through the population.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  This has not shown to be the case for COVID-19. Hell, school closures weren’t even recommended by the WHO for influenza which can directly harm children. You need to provide affirmative evidence before undertaking societal interventions with guaranteed negative impact. Does the hippocratic oath ring a bell?
ldx77 6y ago
The people in charge certainly seem to think that our lives can be put on hold indefinitely. For me the most annoying thing is the idea that lockdown is somehow "saving" lives. People who are dying from COVID would have died from something else 2-3 years from now. These are old, sick people, whose lives are (mostly) behind them. If I was an 80 yo and my grand-kids were put in prison to allow me to live a couple more years, I would be even more angry than I am right now.

icelancer 6y ago

>> Yes. If it means I can actually go to the gym and workout, meet my friends, etc. It doesn't. No amount of hiding temporarily solves the problem. Authoritarian rules would be in effect until immunity rates are above herd thresholds at a minimum. There is no "one month" shutdown in the US or a connected EU country that solves the problem permanently unless you ban international travelers / force them to quarantine for 14 days in a hotel.

josephg 6y ago
> unless you ban international travelers / force them to quarantine for 14 days in a hotel. Thats the sticking point for you? Who cares about international travellers. They can wait, and visit when covid is over.

dennis_jeeves 6y ago

>Are you tired of the god damn pandemic? I know I am. Because we already have no freedom. Well, that for you are ordinary people (govts just echo their sentiments). They will enslave you for their benefit ( real or imaginary). They will take away your freedom under the guise of concern for your health.